JadeCap on delayed gratification and running prop firms as a business

0:00They have had $4.5 million in payouts and they hold the single biggest record for a prop firm payout of $2.5 million. I saw Trader Kane hit a $2 million payout and I said, you know, I can do this, too. All that experience have led up to some really big payouts. And I think there's a big reason why I'm in the position I am today. Because today's guest is Kyle, better known as Jadecap.

0:20He's done over $4.5 million in payouts with a world record $2.5 million in a single payout alone. first five t years I was strategy hopping trying to work on my risk management and everything when you start diving into psychology those are the hard things to address I would say the facade of trading is on social media it's like everybody gets lured into it right for the easy fast money and they don't realize like how hard and difficult it is at times and it's not like it goes away doesn't go away because nobody wants to admit that they are you've heard his story before but here's what most people miss he actually became more consistent when he stopped listening to his mentor That's when his trading really transformed.

0:57If you're trading at a specific size, say I'm going to trade one microcontract for the next 3 months. And if I can't stick to that specific size, then I have a discipline issue, which I really had to do. I really had to work on that. Big part of trading is knowing how to position properly, knowing what size to take. And you know, everybody always comes up to me and asks me when was it when your trading clicked?

1:13And I would say he went from construction worker to one of the most recognized prop firm traders in the world. This episode isn't about payouts. It's about consistency. It's about independence. And it's about learning to execute under pressure. Biggest differentiating factor is that you need to separate trade signals versus trade advice because the hard truth is that I'd love to get straight into conversation if you don't mind. Yeah. I I have something noted down that I saw uh something that you said online that kind of stuck out stood out for me a little bit and I think it's a a good point of conversation to kick things off today.

1:45Yeah. I heard that you mentioned at one point that you became a lot more consistent with your trading when you stopped listening to your mentor and I thought that was a pretty interesting take because I think in today's day and world most people are are seeking the right mentor. They're seeking the right information. Why is it that you feel like that was such a big turning point for you? Well, I think it was outside noise to be completely honest.

2:14I think when you get to a certain point in your trading where you start taking trades that some people in your group, you know, in your circle might be looking at the same setups and there were times where I was following my mentor and kind of heard trade ideas that he was throwing around and I would go into that trade and it would stop me out and I would feel bad.

2:31But I think o hurt me a little bit because I was kind of using him as a scapegoat instead of taking responsibility for my own actions. So I think over time I just learned that you know trading is more it's a personal endeavor and I think the more and more you can start moving towards being an independent trader and making your own decisions and I think that's very difficult to do in today's day and age because everybody's looking on social media looking online they're asking people for advice and they've lost the ability to make decisions on their own.

3:02So I think at when you're when you mature as a trader, you start to realize like this is an independent thinking game and I need to learn how to you know make my own decisions and you know I guess um take responsibility for your own actions because you're the one clicking the buttons. You're the one making the decision. So if you always have somebody that you're looking towards uh to take trade signals or ideas from, you never really truly learn on your own.

3:29where where do you start to draw that line? Because I I come from the approach that I do think it's helpful to have a mentor, a community, the right people around you, especially in your early days because I I follow the philosophy that you don't know what you don't know, right? until somebody can kind of guide you and show you that hey you're kind of doing this right and you're doing this wrong I think it's very beneficial to have at the start but where do you think if you know someone's an aspiring trader then you into this game where do you draw the line of to say I've learned enough from this and I need to kind of start creating my own path well I think here's the thing so the first trading conference that I had gone to was probably 10 years into my trading career and then now looking back I kind of regret not reaching out to other traders and being part of that community earlier but I think the biggest differentiating factor is that you need to separate trade signals versus trade advice.

4:17Right? So being part of a community and growing with like-minded traders is extremely important. I wish I had done it sooner in my career because it took me 10 years to meet the first trader in person other than the people that got me into the markets. So I don't I don't understand why I waited that long because we bounce ideas off each other.

4:40We're going through the same struggles. I don't take trade advice from them and it usually when I do I usually end up losing money. Um, but it's important to grow with a community of like-minded traders. You know, we're all going through the same struggles. A lot of the advice that you've heard before, it's still sage advice. Like traders still struggle with the same issues for the past multiple centuries. You know,

5:04100 plus years. These traders are dealing with the same issues that we're dealing with right now. And I don't think anything about the market is going to change unless you can remove the human condition which is probably impossible unless you're automating systems which I think you know has its place but for most people out there discretionary as a discretionary trader they have to make their own decisions. That's a fair point. I I mean I got into the game quite some time ago 2012 so probably not too long around the same year when we started.

5:31Um, but I I have a very similar thesis on this, which is kind of like of all the years that I've been in the markets, I haven't found the statistics for becoming profitable have drastically changed. Yeah. And I think the the big narrative that's thrown out or online or at least this was the perception that I had, it was always about that there was a missing piece to the puzzle or a bit of information that I didn't have that I thought I could find from the next community, the next mentor, the next strategy that you would buy, something like that.

5:57Um, but I I think today's day and age, as you kind of pointed out, is like we live in an era where it's never been easier to connect with other people. It's never been easier to acquire information. But that should kind of let the light bulb moment go off for a lot of people to understand that there's more to this game than just what happens on the charts. Yeah. Right. Um I know you're someone that's very big on the idea of working on kind of the inner game as much as the outer game.

6:28What's that journey been like for you? It's been interesting because as you probably know, usually when you first get into trading, you hear all these different concepts like having a strategy, having risk management, having psychology. Usually at the back of that list is psychology cuz nobody really pays attention to it until they find out that it's a big issue. And I think that progression took me a long time to understand.

6:57I thought, you know, the first five, 10 years I was strategy hopping, trying to work on my risk management and everything because the hard truth is that when you start diving into psychology, those are the hard things to address as part of your personality because nobody wants to admit that they are impatient or that they get angry or that they're greedy or, you know, all these various things and it takes time to want to change. I think a lot of people I think outside of trading, let's just scratch trading for a second and look at people that have a hard time changing their personality, there's something deeper at play there.

7:27Whether they're in denial of whatever condition that they have or they just simply can't change as a person that is a human condition and that's something that affects trading but also other aspects of life. Like take for example somebody that's addicted to alcohol. A lot of times it's a personality flaw than it is more you know a substance addiction. And you have to kind of dive deep into those root problems and figure out what is actually causing me to want to drink.

8:03And a lot of times a lot of those people have trauma from earlier, you know, in their past life that they're carrying along with them that they're not addressing. And subconsciously they're falling back into the same habit and the same cycle and they just can't quit. M I I find the whole the mindset of uh forget again trader for a second.

8:23I find the mindset of a human being very very fascinating. How we get to where we are today, the reason why we think, feel, and act the way that we do. It all stems from a byproduct of a belief, an experience, something that you've grown up hearing that again a lot of people, as you correctly said, they don't really pay attention to, but it plays a huge part of what influences all of our day-to-day actions.

8:43And as part of what we're doing as aspiring or consistently profitable traders, this is something that we really have to be mindful of. And it's hard because sometimes you're doing things subconsciously. I actually had this discussion with Randy Howell. I've been talking with him. He's working with me on my trading personally. And he had mentioned that there was this one trader that he had uh really great guy was managing a personal account of multiple $100,000.

8:59And every time he hit a million dollars, he would kind of hit a ceiling and then come crashing back down. Without realizing when he was younger, uh, his father, I guess, was kind of just like a blueco collar man. And he would always kind of say, you know, nobody's worth a million dollars. Nobody's worth a million dollars. And that kind of subconsciously planted that seed in his head. So every time he reached a million dollars, subconsciously he was self-sabotaging. And I kind of I've been through that journey as well, cuz I came from a family that was kind of middle class.

9:28I mean, uh, it's not like we were rich or anything, but we were we were decently, um, you know, comfortable. Yeah. But they weren't exposed to wealth and affluence like that. So, I have in my mind I had to kind of break that through that barrier to understand like, hey, there are people making a lot more money than just the average person out there. But, it's a very small percentage. But I don't think a lot of people recognize that sometimes subconsciously there's something holding you back that is deeper 100% you can't see it at surface level.

9:59Yeah. I I feel like this becomes a lot more prominent when you start actually looking at this in the perspective of what we're talking about here which is the prop firm space. largely because one of the

10:16topics of conversation that I've constantly been coming back to during these episodes is actually the barrier to entry for trading has never been smaller. Yeah. Right. It's it's never become an easier time to transition into at least wanting to become a trader. But I find as much as prop firms are a massive benefit, there's also a lot of psychology games at play that not a lot of people are prepared for. Right. You're someone that's obviously played the game quite well. you you're wellversed in the the kind of field of prop firms because you started off with CFDs, right?

10:50I started off with my personal account and then I started off Yeah. CFD prop firms 10 years into my career. Yeah. Right. So then transitioned into mainly what you do now, which is futures. Mhm. How have you found the the psychology differences between all of those? So going from personal to CFDs to futures, what's that been? Well, I guess let's talk about like the timeline of trading in general. You know, back in 2011, 2012, getting trading education was nearly impossible.

11:16Like the stream of information was slower. You were just on a forum. People weren't posting on YouTube. You couldn't see people live trading their executions. You know, very few people were actually screen recording what it looked like when they were taking a trade. So, I think now it's great, but now there's almost too much information. Um, and I think that's that can can be uh it can hurt you as a trader when there's way too much information online because there's just noise.

11:42There's a lot of noise. Uh, so as a trader in today's day and age, even though the access is easier, it can be much harder. Um, so when I was obvious going back to the original topic, uh, I started out on personal account, right? And I think a lot of traders just have an issue with capital and they have an issue with the size that they're trading. uh because at times it feels like it's not enough and uh it's hard to internalize and I've had this discussion over this past weekend when you're taking a trade and you're making you know let's say you're making more than you would at a 9 to5 at times it feels too easy.

12:14So subconsciously you kind of self-sabotage and say I didn't work hard enough to make that $1,000 even though that $1,000 was made much faster than your job that you work 9 to5. So it's hard to internalize uh just from a trading perspective and I've had to go through that journey um through throughout my entire career. But when I found the CFD at Profarms right before co or right around co it was I looked at that opportunity as you know kind of my golden ticket because up until that point I was working a decent job but as most of you guys know it's difficult to save up for a personal account a sizable personal account that is actually going to make a difference in your life while you're while while you have all these other expenses.

12:58And for me, you know, I had a mortgage payment. I had a wife to take care of. Uh I was putting money into my retirement account because those were safer than putting all my money into a trading account, which I would say, you know, 80% of retail traders are probably putting all of their liquidity into trading. And that increases the level of pressure that you have. So by the time I got to the CFD prop firm space, I was already making really good money and I was focusing on my career because that was the one thing that was paying the bills.

13:21So over time I started making more and more. Um and I I was in a comfortable position enough to take the risk on prop firms. Um but again, I still didn't have the capital. So when I looked at CFD prop firms, it was leverage. That's what I was looking for. I was looking for the leverage. I was looking for the capped downside. So if I lost an account, it wasn't like I was losing $20,000, but at the time I was buying 200k FTO accounts and you had a 10% draw down.

13:49So when I saw that, you know, my eyes lit up. I was like, this is like the jump start that I really needed. So because I had already had 10 years of experience going into the space, I was able to manage the risk effectively because I had already been through so many ups and downs in my trading career that I had the basic foundations. So, there are different ways that you get into the space. Either you're brand new and you don't know how to trade and you go into the prop space and you're using it as an educational tool or you have a skill set where you can, you know, leverage that in the prop space.

14:18Uh, I think both are beneficial, but where it gets really hard for people is that they're spending money that they

14:34can't afford to lose and that's a dangerous side of the trading space. Um, so you know, all that experience had led up to some really big payouts. And I think delayed gratification is a big reason why I'm in the position I am today because I wasn't just going out and spending the first large payout that I got. You know, I wasn't buying a watch. I didn't uh have a nice fancy car. I took all that money and just kept reinvesting it into my trading business and reinvesting it into my trading business until I got to the point where, okay, I have way more than I need.

15:08you know, I I can buy things three, four times over. Now, I can enjoy the money a little bit. So, I know that there's a lot of young guys that are getting into the training space right now, and the first thing they do, you I see it so many times. I see a young kid going out and buying the supercar when I know they probably didn't get financing for that because the supercar game when you're trying to buy something like that, you don't have any history.

15:27Like, that's your first car, you're going to have to put down 50 to 75%. Okay? Even for me, I have good credit. I own multiple properties. Like my first supercar purchase that I had, I had a hard time with financing cuz they were like, "This is the biggest auto loan that you've had." Right? So, my previous auto loan was 80K. I'm trying to get financed for 200k. I have to put down a lot more. And as a young person, as uh somebody that's trying to build a wealth and not just be like a flash in the pan success, you have to take that money and be be wise with it because you don't want to just pay for things that you can't afford.

16:02your trading performance goes down the drain and then all of a sudden you're in a tough position where you can't make it work. So that's kind of been my whole journey is I've always put off buying something or doing something with the money and just focused on trading, right? and use the payouts to roll into more accounts and get more funding and more capital and build up my emergency fund so I can afford to buy more more accounts and take the risk that's kind of required to hit some of those big payouts because I'll be honest the the run at Apex a lot of people won't be able to do that because they see the money and they're like you know they they're kind of like a deer in headlights they can't fathom or they can't they don't have the threshold the risk threshold the comfortability with large amounts to risk.

16:46So, when they see that money, even though it's not in your account yet, they're panicking. So, you have to build your way up. I didn't just get here overnight, right? Like, I wasn't comfortable risking $20,000, $40,000 a trade instantly. I started out with 10 bucks, you know, five, 15, $25 per trade. And I'm sure you probably started out the same way.

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18:39I I use a lot of analogies and compare trading to health and fitness because I think they have a lot of overlap. You can't rush the process and either of you go to the gym, you can't squat 300 lb if you've never squatted before. 100%. Right. I So I use the same thing. I talk about it in terms of bench press. I say if your goal is to bench press 100 kg and you've never done it before, most people are better off just bench pressing the bar.

18:58Yeah. 100%. 100%. Or squatting with the bar. Air squats. you get make sure you get good depth. Yeah. Like take it as slow as possible. The thing that I like about that idea is that even after three, six, 12 months in the game, you may have perfect form. You may have increased in weight that what you were lifting before, but it doesn't mean you can instantly then go from, you know, 50 kg to 100 kg.

19:25Exactly. You still have to have that progressive overload. I went through those problems because I was the trader that tried to scale up too fast. I tried I was going from $50 positions and I'd have a big win like $300, $500 and then instantly go to $250 risk without realizing I don't have the mental edge to be seeing the P&L fluctuate that much. And it's that comfort zone that you're always pushing as a trader.

19:50You know, when you hit a certain level, you know, look at a guy like Umar Ashro. Do you think he got there overnight risking that size? It doesn't happen overnight. And you have to like slowly or at least plan a way to scale up. So, you know, if you're trading at a specific size, say, I'm going to trade one micro contract for the next 3 months, and if I can't stick with the to that specific size, then I have a discipline issue, which I really had to do that.

20:16I really had to work on that because my position sizing was inconsistent. And that is a big part of trading is knowing how to position properly, knowing what size to take when your A+ setup appears, and knowing when to back off when you don't feel as confident. Yeah, I I often find that some of the most difficult advice to give to a trader, which is you're risking too much.

20:37You need to size down. And I always get the same response back, which is, well, if I size down, then when I win, I'm not going to make as much money as I would like. And the question I always say is, are you making as much money as you would like now? Because you make some and then you give it back and you end up in the same cycle all over again. Yeah. Well, trading is not, you know, and it's a it really is a paradox.

20:55Trading is not about money. Trading is about following a prop pro process. If you can't follow a process on the smallest size, you are not going to be able to follow that process on a larger size. And that's just point blank period. If if you can't manage thousand dollars in your bank account, what makes you think you're going to be able to manage 10,000 or hundred,000?

21:15And I've had to learn that along my journey as well because I was never good with money. I was when I was younger, I was spending my money as soon as I got it like buying clothes, going out and just I don't know, doing stupid things with it. Um you have to learn how to manage it properly and that takes time as well and some people's relationship with money is just poor. Yeah. One one thing that you said on the topic of managing money is you talked a lot about delayed gratification.

21:41Yeah. Is that something that you feel like you always had or was that something that you had to forcefully instill into yourself? I had to forcefully instill it. I think it was it was probably my mid to late 20s. Um right around the same time I got engaged. Uh I really had to try and learn how to save money and not go out and spend.

22:02So I think one of the biggest things was I wasn't traveling internationally. like a lot of my friends I could I would see them go on vacations and everything and I basically just stayed home to try and save for my wedding and save for a down payment on a house and uh I had to learn how to budget properly because yeah I think when I was younger going back to me spending all my money very quickly is because I wanted instant gratification.

22:24So, it was always instant gratification. Instant gratification. But it was hurting me long term. And that was just, you know, instant gratification is just it's a short-term mindset. Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, instant gratification. Yeah. Trading in general, people want instant gratification, right? They want they want the strategy that's going to make them profitable tomorrow, right? Not three months from now, not a year from now. They want something that works right now. Yeah. And everybody was, you know, even for for me, I was searching for the light bulb moment.

22:57And you know, everybody always comes up to me and asks me when was it when your trading clicked? And I would say, I can't tell you. And most traders can't tell you because it's a gradual process. It's like you unlock one door and there's another door. Yeah. Right. So you you learn something about yourself or your strategy, your system, and you're like, "Ah, that's an aha moment." And then there's another door that's has another secret behind it.

23:25I I resonate with this a lot because I think especially in my first few years where I never took this game seriously, I had that feeling as well. I thought that at some point it would get easy. I would understand the market, right? And then the market would just become this kind of ATM that you could just print money whenever you like. And I I think the hardest part is understanding that, you know, sometimes you're going to do everything right and you're still going to suck.

23:44That can last for periods of time. And it's it's difficult to explain to someone, especially people that are maybe don't have too much experience in the game or don't understand trading entirely, but when they ask for that moment where it's like, where did it click or when did you become profitable? And I I try and explain like it's not a switch you flick. Like even when you're profitable, you'll still go through patches where you lose money. Exactly. So, it's like how do you differentiate between the two?

24:10Like how do you figure out this is a profitable trader that's just going through a streak of losing money and this is someone that is not making any money at all? Yeah. How how would you split the difference between those two? Well, I think you kind of just just said it like the seasoned veteran traders know that there's that trading is streaky.

24:28They know that they go through rough patches. And the interesting thing is being around some of these more seasoned guys. And I still hear that they have tilt days. I still hear that they're struggling and I still hear that they are trying to, you know, I think trading you learn something new about yourself almost every single day. Yeah. And that's kind of what the um I would say the facade of trading is on social media. It's like everybody gets lured into it, right, for the easy fast money and they don't realize like how hard and difficult it is at times.

24:57And it's not like it goes away. It doesn't go away. You go through a rough pit. Like right now the markets are chopping sideways on me and it's very very frustrating. Like I I take the trades that I know I'm supposed to take and they just don't work. M but I think it's okay, right? It's still frustrating. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm following my plan, but I still get I still lose money.

25:21That is what you have to deal with as a professional trader is that you go through streaks. It's not it's not, you know, everything's fine and dandy all the time. Um, and I think most traders when they first come into the game, they have this unrealistic expectation that again like what what you mentioned that there's this switch that they can just flip on and off and you can't do that. Yeah. I I think a lot of the problem and I use this lightly because I have a maybe a mixed feeling about this, but I think some of the problem really roots back to social media.

25:49Yeah. It's it's the impression and the expectation that people have sold by people that are just selling the dream. Mhm. And I I've got a massive dislike for people that don't paint a real reality of what the game is like because it's it's not all sunshine and rainbows. It's not the you know, you're on a beach today and you're clicking a few buttons and you're making millions of dollars.

26:14That journey is never like that for most people. And I think a lot of people have to come in and you said it correctly with the which is you have to have the right expectations from the get- go. And I also think that there are legitimate traders, but when you go on their social page, of course it's the lif, you know, of course they want to post the lifestyle, but if you were to be with them daytoday, they're probably not doing that.

26:32You know, it's probably some highlight. You're seeing the highlight reel of some of these people's lives, but from the daytoday, they're probably locked in a room for 8 to 10 hours trading the markets or working on their business, right? And then you're seeing the highlights. So, it's a very small percent of their daily life that they're showing you on social media because even for me, I don't want to let people into my life, my whole, you know, my whole personal life.

26:56So, what you see on social media is just a very small percentage. You know, my Ferrari, for example, I drive that one time a week, right? But you probably see it on social media like, "Oh, this guy drives it every day." Yeah. Yeah. Not Not true. You know, I'm in my office. I'm working. My head's down and I'm really just focused on trading for the most part.

27:16Yeah. I there's a there's a beautiful quote and I know I'm going to butcher it before I even say it, but it was I think it was said by Jimmy Carr and there's been variations of it by many different people, but it's it's all revolves around this idea that everyone wants the things that you have, but nobody's jealous of how you got there in the first place, right?

27:36And I I think that's true of a lot of what we've spoken about with like the people that have actually made it in this game. It's very very rare that I've heard a story where it's happened overnight. There's always been the failure, the setbacks, the, you know, sleepless nights, all of those sorts of things. And I'm sure, you know, someone with your experience has been through many stages of that. For the person that's watching this and they're still in that phase and they don't have that light at the end of the tunnel yet, what would you say to them?

28:01Like how how do you guide them through that process? Yeah. So, I actually saw something on social media the other day. It was a school of hard knocks. And you know what he said? that everybody's addicted to information but allergic to execution. And that to me is so so powerful is that you can consume as much information as you want.

28:23You could go spend hours and hours and hours on my YouTube channel, on anybody else's channel, but the real hard work is actually sitting down and applying what you've learned. And that was a big enlightening moment for me as well through my journey was because I spent so much time, probably way too much time, trying to educate myself about the markets instead of actually trading the markets. Like yes, I was still taking trades, but I wasn't focused on what I was doing wrong, like how to position myself accordingly.

28:51And every time I got stopped out, I would go straight to to YouTube or another piece of content and try and figure out what went wrong. when in reality, you know, everything that I needed to know was already in front of me. So, I think that's a big thing is stop consuming so much information. And that's again a downside of what we're seeing right now is that there's so much access to information that it's almost causing like analysis paralysis.

29:16Like it's too much information. It's a good thing and a bad thing. You have to use it wisely. You have to make sure that you are um limiting yourself on how much knowledge you're going to consume. find something that works that you can repeat and then just focus on self-improvement because I think if you just really try and dial in and figure out what you're doing wrong from a you know mental standpoint, I think you'll probably find a way to make that strategy work.

29:43One thing um I do also want to run by you because I think you'll have a really interesting insight on this is the industry in its entirety. You've obviously been someone that's seen the industry change, evolve. We've seen prop firms come and go. Um, what's your thought on the industry in and of itself and are there things that we should be observing, looking for that are going to help us to to play the game of prop firms to do really well in them?

30:01Well, uh, I think the indust the industry is growing a lot. I think it's it has grown a lot and it's still growing and you have to look at those opportunities as their leverage opportunities. I think too many people probably put all their eggs in one basket and you know they complain when the firm goes down or when they break a rule.

30:27But this is a business, right? You have to understand this is a business. You are expending capital for an opportunity to get leverage and to make some make some money. As with any business, you're going to have expenses. Okay? Just because you put money into that account and buy that funded account does not mean that you're going to get a return out of it. You have to treat it that way.

30:47And when you're first starting out, you want to make sure that you're protecting the accounts, okay? You know, get some payouts. Make sure that that money actually hits your account because there's no guarantee that these firms are going to be around tomorrow. And you that's how you have to navigate a lot of this industry is that there's a risk with what you're taking, right? You're paying for an evaluation fee without the promise of being paid out at the end. But the ROI opportunities that's across the industry with trading prop firms, it's high.

31:13You know, people ask, "Why do you trade prop firms if you can trade your personal capital?" Well, it's the it's the ROI. It's the leverage opportunity. You know, I can't put $1,000 into my personal account and get $150,000 in margin, right? That you can do that in a prop account, right? Um, but I think the shift that the industry maybe needs to see going forward is how do we get to the next level, right?

31:42There's a lot of retail traders that are doing really well. Some of them are gaming the system, though. Some of them aren't really getting better as a trader. They're just gaming the system because they know if they spend X, if they hit one big payout, they can get a return for over here, but they're not improving as a trader. So like let's say if these firms disappear tomorrow, not you know not only be the bearer of bad news but like playing devil's advocate.

32:03If prop goes away tomorrow and you haven't become a better trader, you've essentially wasted your time. So you have to look at it like and if you understand that you're trading differently on a per prop firm compared to a personal account, that's great. But they have to understand like maybe I'm building bad habits here that aren't going to you know that aren't going to serve me in the future. So I think looking forward the industry is in an interesting spot right now because there's a lot of moving parts.

32:31It's constantly changing. Um I would like to see the industry start moving more towards the traditional route of prop. You know getting the top talented traders improving on their skill sets working with them. you know, maybe the firms want to work with some of these top traders and improve their skills and then really give them capital. Yeah. Backed, you know, behind them. Yeah. I I really think the the prop game, as you said, when you look at it from an ROI standpoint, it's really a no-brainer as to whether people should be getting involved, right?

33:02When we think about diversification, when we think about ROI, there's a lot of good reasons to be in the game. But I think uh a common trap that I see a lot of traders make and you kind of like lightly brush brushed on this a little bit which is I think traders especially in the prop space they get addicted to hitting reset. Yeah. And it's something like it's a habit that you will build that will never pay any returns outside of the prop space because you start managing your own capital or investor capital and there's no reset.

33:34You can't lose 10 50% of your account and be like, "Hey, do you want to just top this back up to starting point and we go again, right?" Um, and I think this is one of the I don't want to call it a downside of the prop space, but I think it's more so a reflection of the users that are getting in.

33:51They're either not coming in with the right expectations um and they're not focusing on I think the core thing which you touched on there, which is you actually improving as a trader. Yeah. And some of them don't even have money because you can buy it on a credit card. You know, when I first started, when you first started, you couldn't deposit into your broker account with a credit card.

34:07Like, it's dangerous to play that game. Again, you have to learn how to manage your money better because if you can't do that, you're never going to stand a chance in the markets ever because there's too much pressure. You're under too much financial pressure to make this work and you can't let a trade run, you know, and you're mismanaging it.

34:27You're trading too much because you need that money to pay off the credit card bill that you can't afford. Yeah. It's a vicious cycle. Yeah. What would you say to

34:37to the person that is starting out has a little bit of money um and and wants to play this the right way? Like understanding what we what we know about the opportunity that's presented in the prop space. How would you go about actually starting things off on the right foot both in terms of execution in terms of like buying accounts as well as the mindset going in? Well, obviously I would set it up just like I did.

34:59I I would set up a business, right? Because once you set up an LLC, doesn't cost a lot of money, at least here in the States, set up an LLC, open up a business line of credit, so a credit card, but have the money to pay off the business credit card, okay? And treat it like a small business. Let's say if you wanted to start an online shipping, you know, drop shipping business, you might need $5,000 for inventory.

35:16Let's say you're going to start with $5,000. At least if you do it on a business credit card, you can track your P&L, you know, you you can track your balance, you know, profit loss of your specific company. like separate your business finances from your personal finances. Right? That's the first point. The second point is knowing that you have capital expenditure to get this business up and running. Right? Limit yourself. Okay? Limit yourself to how many accounts you're going to buy. Don't go overboard.

35:45If you're going overboard, you just have a discipline issue and until you can generate a proper ROI from one account, don't buy multiple accounts. Okay? Start out with one. Prove to yourself that you can actually that this is actually real. first of all, because when I first got into FTMO, I didn't know if they were going to pay me out or not. I wasn't going out and buying all the other accounts that were out there.

36:04Um, I just focus on one firm. As soon as that money hit my bank account, I knew this was a real thing, right? When you're first getting into it, you don't know if this is real. You don't know if everybody online's actually making the money. But when you when you get that first payout, you're like, "Okay, this is actually real. I've actually used my skill set to make this money."

36:23Then you can start growing and scaling the business. Okay? you can start uh diversifying into other prop firms because I've been in situations and there are firms out there that have gone under that have owed me $50 $100,000 and that does not feel good. But when I look at it from a cost perspective, I've lost $2,000 with them. It's unfortunate, right? That's the game we play. Um but again, these businesses, these prop firms, they're business, they're cash flow businesses at the end of the day.

36:51If there's not enough traders paying for the accounts, if they have traders on their books that are making money, let's say if the revenue dries up from people signing up the next month and they still have a liability to pay these traders out, that firm is going to go away. So nothing is guaranteed, right?

37:09So you have to look at this like I need to diversify. I can't have all my eggs in one basket. I need to trade with other firms. Maybe I need to look at different markets and really try and protect your downside because that's really all you can do as a trader. Yeah, I I really like that because it's a lot of the advice that you gave there is centered in around the stuff that needs to be done even before you place your first trade, right?

37:29And I think that's where a lot of traders go wrong. Like their first starting point is everything that they need to enter the market the market with the perfect entry. Yeah. Well, you need a business plan. You need a business plan if you don't know what you're doing. And I learned this, you know, I was a bad student, by the way. I was probably a B student at best in college. They made us they forced us to write a business plan. Most traders don't have that because the again and this is something I learned in business.

37:54Usually the lower barrier to entry the harder the industry is for you to make it. With trading there's like no barrier to entry. You could download the app on your phone, you could pay for a challenge account and you're trading in the next 30 seconds. You know, zero knowledge, zero licenses, no permits, nothing. Yeah. It's it's wild when you think about it in that respect because what other job or profession would allow you to do that? Zero. And what's worse is people actually come into this game with zero gambling.

38:27Gambling. True. But they I think people come into this game with no experience, but they also think that they're going to excel from day one. Yeah. which again if I could go back to my previous career I don't think I would have changed anything because I learned so many essentials about business and how to operate properly risk management um you know just managing a budget in general was extremely important to me 100% 100% you need the number one trading tool for traders introducing Tradezeller it doesn't matter if you're a forex trader a crypto trader an options trader or even a futures trader is for everyone to be profitable you need to have an edge Tradzella allows you to identify, manage, tweak, and refine your trading edge.

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39:42One thing I saw you I think you was you tweeted recently. You were talking about the opportunities that have I think been better for you since switching to futures, right? Transitioning away from primarily FX I think which you used to trade some time ago um and coming into the future space. And I I remember when that transition was happening, especially for a lot of traders in the US, when MetaTrader was no longer going to be available and their only option to continue was going into futures.

40:04What was that like for you? Because obviously up until that point, your whole trading career had primarily been around like CFDs and FX and things like that. Yes, correct. Did did you feel like everything was coming to an end and it was, you know, ending before it had really begun? Well, a big reason was they stopped allowing us traders. So when I looked at that, you know, I was getting cut cut off. And as a trader, you kind of have to adapt to any situation.

40:32So either I roll over and just I guess stop trading or I go into another market. And I was kind of like forced into that market. Um it wasn't a bad thing. You know, I saw Trader Kane hit a $2 million payout and I said, you know, I can do this, too. Um but the transition was pretty difficult because it was a market that I hadn't really tra traded before and the volatility is different. So it moves differently. Um, so what I had to learn was I can't really swing trade in those markets too often.

40:57Um, they're very volatile, but the riskreward is probably better on a lower time frame because all the volatility comes in at the open and at the at the close. So, one thing that I learned was I was getting into trades too early. The forex markets were moving at, you know, during London session 8 a.m. and I could trade overnight. I could swing positions, but that's because of the currencies, right? They're supposed to be stable.

41:22They're supposed to move slowly. not supposed to you're not supposed to see massive 2% days every single day because then the whole global economy or at least that specific economy would be in shambles, right? Because their currency's all over the place, too volatile. Um, so moving into a market like futures, NASDAQ, S&P, nobody care, you know, the market's not going to, I guess, be destroyed if they have a 3% down day. So those markets move around a ton. And as a trader, that's kind of what you want.

41:52you want volatility and not only that with futures there's like no spread. So there was no spread that I had to overcome when I entered a trade. Yeah, I like that. And I I asked this purely selfishly because this is something that I'm thinking about a lot myself. I've primarily been CFD since day one only to really trade FX. But you can see statistically that volatility is dying out. And as you said, volatility is everything as a trader. So I I've started to open my eyes to thinking that I need to start exploring equities, maybe commodities.

42:18I mean, you look at how gold and silver have been moving recently. Yeah. It doesn't mean that you have to just completely drop forex forever because I still trade euro every now and then. Um, but when a market is dead, you should try and find another market, you know, and I think that's, you know, one thing that a lot of traders struggle with.

42:37They go through the debate of do we become a specialist in one market or do we, you know, build a skill set that maybe allows us to trade a variety of different ones. And I think you you said it really well, which is like we're traders, we have to be adaptable. You have to go wherever the market I think you want to start out as a specialist and kind of learn the ins and outs of a specific market because once you know how to do that, then you can apply it to other markets.

42:54But if you're kind of bouncing back and forth, you you're trying to juggle too many characteristics across these different markets and how they operate. What what does that actually look like for you? So, when you're thinking about going from one market to another, do you go through a period of back testing? Do you collect data? Do you journal? Like, what does that look like in terms of your process? Honestly, just live executions, but I'm trading a very small size just to kind of get in sync with it and try and understand how it moves.

43:20Um, back testing is good up to a certain point. Uh, because no matter how much back testing you do, you can't curve fit it to what's going to happen in the future. There's no telling what's going to happen tomorrow. And speaking of right, let's talk about the gold and silver markets. Right now, gold and silver are going absolutely bananas. I've been trading for a long time. Those markets were kind of sleepy. They were just stuck within a range. Gold was the stable asset. People were putting money into gold when they wanted to hedge.

43:51Yep. When a market is booming like that, do you think I'm going to touch it? Probably not because I know it's just a short period of volatility. Like, yeah, I can go in there and touch it, but I'm used to seeing gold stuck in a range. I'm not going to go out of my wheelhouse chasing a market that I don't understand. Okay? If I wanted to start trading gold, I'm going to spend some intimate time with it and trade a small size, which right now is very hard to do, especially silver.

44:11You can't you can it's hard to trade silver at a small size. One mini contract, you know, in 10 seconds you'll be down $1,000, $2,000. So, if it's a market that you don't really understand and you can't trade a small size, I'd probably just not touch it. So, is there is there a specific asset class that you would recommend to most like new traders that are maybe not used to volatility? Probably S&P 500. Really? Yeah. ES. Yeah.

44:42It's it moves slowly more slowly than NQ. The position sizes are smaller. So, if you trade a micro contract um and it just moves a little bit more I guess fundamentally like sound. Yeah. Fair. Fair. I I have found that a lot of people in the the prop space specifically, they will get attached onto one market and they'll never move away. This is definitely something that I've been guilty of as well.

45:09Um what would you how would you recommend that someone opens their eyes to the new opportunities of what are available like and I'm thinking along the lines of I see a lot of traders actually going down the route of crypto in today's day and age. Is that something that you've ever

45:27touched before? Yeah, but not really ended well. Okay. Because I'm not trading crypto the same way that I'm trading some of these other markets where I have like a, you know, base hit, you know, take profit. Yeah. Uh sometime sometimes crypto the emotions run high because you see the project, you see the founders, you're like this thing's going to go to the moon.

45:43Um so, you know, I haven't done too well in crypto. And I I would say when you're dabbling in other markets, you could still be a specialist in your one market. The benefit of having a big watch list is seeing where the money is going. Yeah. Right. And understanding like okay this market is hot. What is the sentiment on why it's doing this? Right. So when all the foreign currencies are going higher and then you see dollar kind of going lower and you see index markets chopping or going lower, you know, it's giving you a narrative of where the big money is actually going.

46:13And obviously we saw it uh go into commodities, silver and gold. Yeah. Right. But it's interesting because when you look at that correlation, you're like, "Oh, Bitcoin should be going up." Yeah. But it's not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's I always find watching the wider market is a very interesting space. I can't remember where I heard this.

46:33I I definitely didn't make it up cuz I'm not that smart or poetic, but they they talk about this idea about how money never just disappears. Yeah. Of course, it doesn't. It just rotates from one place to another. It just rotates, right? Money is money is not being uh you know, added to the market at an astounding rate, right? So like a lot of the big players, it's not like they're getting a billion dollars AUum every single day. They're just trying to manage it more effectively.

46:58So they're just rotating that money unless they're raising capital, right? A lot of times some of those funds, they'll raise a billion dollars and stop stop raising funds, right? You get in on the initial round and that's it. Um but then it's up to them to actually put that money to use. So like where are they pulling it out of? Well, maybe they're pulling it out of the bond market and they're going to put it in gold or they're doing something with it, right?

47:15because they're trying to chase yield. They're trying to go to the market that will provide the yield. So again, it's not not so much that you need to trade those markets. It's important that you have it on your screen though and understand where it's going. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is really important for a lot of I think regardless of where people are in their journey, they need to understand these dynamics of how the market flows, the importance of market conditions because it's ultimately going to have a massive impact on your overall performance and your mentality throughout that as And I think that's part of maturing as a trader, right?

47:43You I my dad and my mom used to watch like MSNBC or CNBC like at the close and I just be like, "Oh, what's going on?" You know, and everything ties into that though, you know, the global economic situations that that we're in, you know, the different events that you're seeing, whether it's, you know, war conflicts going on overseas, all those things have an impact on the markets and you can't just be so blindly just glued to the screens.

48:15I think it's it's important to at least have some type of finger on the pulse of what's going on around the world. How how much do you give weight to fundamentals versus technicals? Um I use fundamentals when the headlines are really I guess intense. Okay. Um tariff news, the war in Ukraine, those were like major movers. Um, but a lot of times if I hadn't watched the news, I probably would have seen the move on the charts because the charts never lie.

48:42You know, when there's sentiment bubbling up or there's something going on, you're going to see it in the charts. Um, but it gives you a little bit more conviction to hold a position to understand that you're on the right side of the markets. Um, but you also can't be fooled by the news. There's a lot of fake headlines out there.

48:59Uh, one great example is Brexit. When Brexit was going on, nobody knew what was going on. Are they leaving? Are they staying? What's going on? like there's a vote today, there's not a vote and you can get caught off sides a lot. Yeah. By just trying to follow the news. So again, going back to like the first thing that we talked about, you have to be an independent thinker.

49:19You have to make decisions on your own. What to believe, what not to believe. You know, is this person on social media real? Is this person doesn't really matter. Yeah. You know, I I've I've had that relationship a lot with a lot of the fundamental factors in the market largely because it's been something that's never been my strong point. Yeah. And I think when you don't really truly understand something, it's very easy for it to become a lot of noise and that creates a lot of distraction.

49:37Right. Yeah. Because I've seen bad reports send the market higher. I've seen good reports send the market lower. Exactly. And what what you really start to understand and this is something that I didn't really take on board to begin with is that a lot of fundamental analysts, it's also open to interpretation. Yeah. They're like weathermen. 100%. Right. But it's it's no different to the technical aspect. We can pull up this. We're weather men, too. We just try and anticipate what's going to happen.

50:06We don't know if it's going to happen or not. You know, we can say, "Oh, it's going to rain tomorrow. I don't know." Yeah. Very true. Very true. Um, I've got

50:16a little bit of a a left field question for you. Yeah. Um, if you had to define what a trader's job is, how would you define it? I'd say risk manager. Yeah, I I like that. And I had a feeling you would probably go that way as well. Um, but I I tend to find that a lot of traders, and this is something that I see from more so like a belief perspective, they come into this game and they believe that their job is to know what's going to happen next.

50:36And I mean, now we're going back to, you know, trading in the zone 101 where you don't have to know what happens next in in order to make money. But not a lot of people really understand and embrace that. And again, it comes back to a belief system. Yeah. And I think being a risk manager goes deeper than just, you know, when people hear risk manager and they're not thinking outside the box, they probably think, "Oh, he means position sizing."

51:04No, I mean holistically like you are a risk. When you sit down at that desk, you are a risk. So your personality is a risk. You have to manage that. Like you're impatient. That is a risk. Okay? And that's something that I had to learn when I went through business. you know, you're writing out your strengths, your weaknesses, your the threats against you as a professional trader or a want to, you know, a person that's aspiring to be a professional trader.

51:26There are risks that are in front of you. These are all hurdles that you have to overcome. Like I like you mentioned about those aha moments where you open a door and there's another door, right? And that's what you have to manage. As a as a risk manager, you're managing the capital, but you're also managing all of the issues that plague most traders. It's like how do I avoid doing this, right?

51:51Yeah. There was a there was an analogy that I heard many many years ago and it applies directly to retail traders, those that are just doing this as a lone wolf, you know, from their own house. But I think it fits very very well. And this person basically described the reason why trading is so difficult is because we have three different jobs, right? The jobs are with a trader, which is the executor, the ones that actually clicks the button, the analyst.

52:13Then you have the analyst, and then you have the risk manager, right? And the problem is on any given day, they're not always going to agree with each other. Sometimes the risk manager is going to say, you know what, you've done enough damage. Mhm. Get the [ __ ] out of here. Go home. Go do something. Go touch grass.

52:31Right? But the trader in you going to is going to have the itchy trigger finger, right? And you're going to want to keep pressing the button. Um, but I I've always found that dynamic interesting and I I try and look at myself through this lens a lot and I'm trying to understand which person's in control. Yeah, exactly. Which one is going to show up to the desk the the desk the next day?

52:50And often times you don't know. Um I I'm sure you're big into like meditation. Massive. I think it's a big thing. I think some people they don't realize like there are different characters that you're internally dealing with when you sit down at the desk, right? We don't know which one is going to pop up. Is it the sabot the sabotur? The person that wants to overtrade and revenge trade and kind of blow up the payout right before right before my payout window. Yeah. You know, you're 100 point you're $100 away from your your payout target and you just blow it.

53:21There's somebody that's taking control of your actions in that specific moment that you have to address. And you can't do that if you're just kind of tunnel vision. You have to take yourself out of your body and observe what is going on here. like there's something either going on up here. Well, it's definitely up here. Definitely up here that you have to address. There's something going on and you have to like uh as a trader I think I think that most traders they kind of understand like this is a personal development journey that most people don't really talk about.

53:47Yeah. Right. Because either you're going to change or not. And for me, I think trading has probably changed my life personally more so than anything else. Yeah. I I always say this as well. I was like the best thing a part about about trading is the person that I became. It was never about the money, you know, not the stuff that you see on social media. It was who you had to become to achieve the things that you want to achieve.

54:12Um, I love the fact that you brought up meditation, first guest to do so. Um, I'm a huge advocate of it. What's that journey been like for you? Well, I never I never really did it until I went full-time training, and I probably should have done it way sooner. I think I would have been a full-time trader way earlier in my career. Um, and it was just something that I looked at and said, you know, that's kind of stupid.

54:33Like, I don't think this is going to help me at all. Um, but when you spend so much time at the desk and you kind of hear all these thoughts in your head just running a muck essentially, they're in control. They're like they have they're having a field day in your head. You don't really recognize that, you know, until you're like a full-time trader and the pressure is really on. Um, and I didn't really look into meditation until I hit a really rough patch.

54:59And with when I when I had a full-time job, okay, I had I had something to fall back onto, so I didn't I didn't look into meditation because all right, well, I had a bad day in the markets. I'll just go back to work. But when I'm a full-time trader, okay, I can't I can't just go back to work. Like, I have to address this right now. Otherwise, I have to go back to work. Yeah. Um, and it wasn't until I hit that point where I was like, you know what, I really need to work on this and I need to, I guess, silence all the voices in my head when I'm sitting at the desk and I have noticed a massive, massive impact on my trading performance.

55:34I'm able to think clearly with clarity and make proper decisions uh in the moment which I think is probably the biggest part about meditating because when you sit down when I first sat down I couldn't sit still for a minute you know and I think that's the problem with you know social media they probably are programming us to not be able to think clearly. Yeah, there was there was a really fascinating study. Again, I'm probably going to butcher it, but there was there was this idea of they gave a they gave a person a choice to either sit in a room alone with nothing else going on or to press a button and receive an electric shock.

56:08Okay. Um and people picked the electric shock. Yeah. Which was crazy cuz it's like it shows you how little people can stand to sit with their own thoughts. Yeah. Um, I like I said, I'm a big advocate of meditation. I've been doing it basically daily since about 2018. And very similar to you, it changed my life.

56:32I I didn't just become a better trader and that wasn't the the reason that I started it. I've just become an all round better human. And a lot of that is again what you touched on, which is the self-awareness. And I think that's it's something that most traders need, but also most learning how to be present in the moment. 100%. Because when you're sitting in front of the desk and all you have all these thoughts running through your head, you're thinking about what's going to happen in the future.

56:52What if I get stopped out? What if this happens? What if this that happens? It hasn't happened yet, right? Most people are living in the future or, you know, the fear of the past. Um, and they're not present. And that this goes beyond trading, right? Everybody's worried about I need to, you know, think about what's going to happen next month when this happens or whatever, blah blah blah. You have to be very present in the moment on what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. And I think overall when you can do that, your stress levels go down, right?

57:19Your cortisol levels go down and you're not in your head all the time. Yeah. I I always heard it framed most beautifully that there are three key three keys to a good life. You have to learn from the past, plan for the future, but live in the present. And most people screw it up because they're haunted by the past. They're anxious about the future.

57:38And as a result of both of those things, they ignore the present. Yeah. Exactly. They can't be present. 100%. 100%. So, um, on a practical level, what does

57:48your meditation look like? Is it something that you do first thing in the morning? Is it midway during your trading day? And what do you actually focus on when you meditate? Uh, so it's not first thing in the morning. You I'll wake up, I'll have a big bottle of water, I'll go on a walk, and then when I get back, I'm usually meditating uh half an hour before I sit at my trading desk or 10 15 minutes.

58:05And then usually before bed. And and what uh when you sit down and meditate, are you focusing on trying to clear your mind? Uh what what specifically are you doing? Honestly, I don't want to have any thoughts in my mind. I just want to focus on my breathing. If I can do that, I know I'm focused.

58:20Yeah. And I start thinking about other things, I know I'm not focused. One one of the things that has always been my experience like I said been doing this since 2018 and I still have many days where I sit down I do the very similar thing which is I choose to focus on my breath and I'll find my brain at some point it runs away.

58:37Yeah. Gets distracted by something. You just bring it back 100%. Right. You bring it back to the present moment. You let that thought go. And I think two of those things together, they really help to make you more mindful, make you more present, um, and just raise that level of self-awareness because what you're ingraining into you is your ability to recognize what your mind is thinking, feeling, experiencing, but also developing that skill set of letting that go if it's not serving you in a beneficial way.

59:09And I found as a trader that's actually a very beneficial skill. Understanding the thoughts that are going on in my mind before they become actions and then being able to let them go. Well, every trader can resonate that with that because when you're holding that trade, how many you're you're going through a range of emotions, you know, the full spectrum of emotions, anger, fear, greed, happiness, euphoria, you know, you have to find a way to minimize that as much as possible because often times those emotions cause you to make poor decisions.

59:35Yeah, 100%. I I think, you know, I I see a lot of people that are constantly focused on the monetary aspect of what they do, right? the the decisions that they make on a day-to-day, the only reflection piece that they have is what impact did this have to my financial account. The account that nobody's worried about is the mental one, right? And like you like you touched on and you said, your level of mental clarity has a huge impact on your ability to make good decisions each and every day.

1:00:03And so I I firmly believe in this idea of like I don't believe we're all going to wake up and be the world's greatest, you know, prop firm trader just from the get- go. I think you have to prime yourself. I think you have to get yourself into the the type of state that you need. Yeah. But like before and after my big run, I was struggling with my trading.

1:00:24So like before my trading, I was struggling. I had to reset, spend more time with myself, spend more time journaling and being mindful of how to set myself up for the next cycle of the market. Yeah, I had to prep prepare myself. And a lot of times traders don't they don't spend enough time doing that. They have to and again this goes to like a daily thing. just sit down 10 minutes in your own thoughts running through how your trading day looks like.

1:00:49Because if you don't do that, you kind of go outside the guardrails and you start doing things that you didn't plan for. And that's all trading is. You have a plan. It's like how well do you execute the plan and how well do I uh avoid all the things that are going to cause me to deviate from the plan. 100%. 100%. Right, Jade Cap, it's been amazing to speak to you today.

1:01:11Uh before we wind down, I want to cover two things that I'm uh doing towards the end of every episode. One of them, a few quickfire questions. Got two or three to run by you. And the last one we're calling confessions of a trader, which I will explain shortly.

1:01:29So, we're going to start with uh quickfire questions. I got three that I would love to run by you. Um first one, favorite book. It could be trading related or anything. I I gotta say Market Wizards. Yeah. Why that one specifically? It's a very quick read. Uh it's very easy to read, right? So, you don't have to spend a whole lot of time doing it. You could read short excerpts every single day.

1:01:52Um but I think the most important message that you get from that book is that everybody's trading differently, but everybody's on the same journey. It's it's very weird. Yeah. Right. Beautiful. Um okay, question number two. Uh what belief do you think most traders need to learn? I think self-belief. I think you have to believe that you have that you can do this, right? And I think uh you have to shut out all the doubt and all the noise and you have to put your head down and really honestly truly work towards what you want.

1:02:20Nice. I like that. Um final one. What lesson took you the longest to learn? I think money management. I think that was probably one of the hardest things to learn. And not only that, um how does my emotions uh tie into that? You know, when my bank account's up, when my bank account's down, when my trading accounts up, when my trading accounts down because money plays such an important role in our lives, but at the same time, it's not everything.

1:02:48And it's ne I think I think it's never ending that you're trying to manage like what is the purpose of trading in general? Like what am I working for? Because once you have enough money, you realize that money is not the final end all be all. And it's like why are we getting into this in the first place? Which is interesting because most people come into trading for the money, but they stay because of the passion or because they realize that this is a personal development thing and that they're refining their processes and becoming a better person in general overall.

1:03:19Yeah. I I always like the idea of working backwards, which is identifying what your dream life really looks like and then figuring out how to make that happen. I think most people start the other way, which is I'm just going to try and make x amount of money and then I'll figure it out. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. But I think having a why uh for me at least made my training so much more important because my why initially was me. It was very selfish. If I kind of look back and think about when did I when did it really start clicking for me?

1:03:46When did I really start taking it seriously was thinking okay 10 20 years from now maybe I have a family or I want to take care of the rest of my family, right? my nieces and my nephews, I have to take this thing seriously. Like I cannot go off the guard rails because they are uh they rely on me, right? So I think the why has to be deeper than just, you know, personal gain. 100%. I love that,

1:04:13man. Okay, so last thing I want to run by you before we wrap up. Like I said, we're we're starting this segment which I'm calling trader confessions. And the idea behind this is to share a message, a story, an idea. um eventually will be submitted by the audience, those people watching, and I'm going to share them with one of our guests. Okay. Um today I've I've come up with one that I think is very fitting. And again, this is based on conversations, experiences that I've had with traders um that I think are going to make for interesting insights.

1:04:41And all I want from you is honest reactions, maybe advice, thoughts, lessons that you can take away from that. So today's trader confession is I know my edge is waiting, but I hate it. I'll sit there for hours doing nothing and then I miss the move that I was waiting for and it sends me in a spiral. I either start forcing trades um to make the day feel worth it or I walk away feeling frustrated and I feel behind.

1:05:13I can't seem to win. Okay, sounds like me. Did I Did I submit that? I don't um I mean I guess the the biggest piece of advice is that this is the long game, right? And that's a very shortterm mindset to have. Like I missed this move. There's never going to be another move ever again, right? The markets are always trading. They don't care if you missed your setup or not. They're going to be moving tomorrow, the next day that the next day after that.

1:05:37So, you really need to look at it and say, "Okay, just because I missed my opportunity does not mean that the bus just stops driving on the same route." The bus is going to show up every single day or every single week at the same time in the same spot and you just have to take advantage of it. So, you really do need to uh there's a book, right? Thinking fast is slow. U Conorman. Yeah. extremely important that you understand that this is a long game and you have to get out of the short-term mindset because what's what's driving those decisions is very short-term things like I need to do this or I need to buy this car.

1:06:14I need to get out of my job. You're not thinking long term enough. And I I totally get where this person's coming from cuz I was there. I needed to get out of my job. I hated my job. I needed to get out of there. I was forcing things and every time I missed a move set me back from that goal. And that's what, you know, causes a lot of traders to to keep running in place.

1:06:34Unfortunately, honestly, it sounds weird, but the less you care, the more money you're going to make. And that's just the honest truth. It's one of the biggest paradoxes of trading, but I think it's the most important lesson. Yeah. Uh Tom Danty mentions it all. I think he had mentioned, you know, the most pe the people that make the most money are the people that don't need money. Yeah. 100%. I I think I I remember sitting in on one of his uh edges for ledges camps. Uh this is no plug or promotion by any means, but he he constantly talks about the idea that the reason he has so much edge in the market is because he shows up not wanting to trade.

1:07:00Yeah. Right. And that idea always stuck with me. It was like my job is not actually to be in the market. It's just to sit on my hands and observe. And I only want to be in when I've lost all reasons to be on the sidelines. He's also probably trading at size where if he loses, he's probably like losing my hair. Right. Kyle, thank you so much for being with us today. Honestly, it's been a great conversation.

1:07:31Hopefully, massive insights for everyone at home. Um, it's been a pleasure to speak with you. Likewise, man. Thanks. Thank you, man. Guys and girls, over to you. What was your biggest takeaway from today? What was your biggest lesson? What was your biggest mindset shift? Let us know in the comments below. We're going to be reading every single one. And if you want to take part in the show, if you want to get involved, if you want to send in your trader confession, make sure you check out the description below so that you can submit yours and you'll have your two cents on these episodes.

1:07:56If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you like the video, subscribe to the channel so stays tuned for more episodes into the future, and check the screen. There's more episodes available for you guys to check out. I'll see you in the next one. Take care.