Okala on scalping the Nasdaq from his phone with 80/20 levels

0:00They've extracted $5 million in profits from prop firms. The most interesting fact, they only trade from their phone. You don't need a thousand things to look at. You look at a phone. What's a phone? You know, you only have three buttons on there. It's very simplistic. You have buy, sell, and cancel. That's how I built the whole strategy is if I told you someone made over $5 million in prop firm payouts, you probably picture multiple screens, a complex strategy, and some advanced concepts.

0:17Now, imagine I told you they did this from just a phone. Five minutes was the core principle of everything that you know that five minutes is 5 million. I went from a 15-minute chart to a 10minute chart and it really changed my how I view the market. The last 2 or 3 months have been my most successful months in in trading period.

0:42And it's strictly because today's guest is Okala, a scalper who's built his edge around simplicity. He created his own 80/20 framework and that gives him clear structure and allows him to make decisions with the clarity that he needs. I've been trading for 7 years now. In those seven years, 8020 and and structure has always remained the same. There's price levels in the NASDAQ.

1:02The very last two numbers end in 80 and 20. I'm not I'm not counting the decimals. And most of the time, you can see a reaction based on that. They're just magic numbers. While most traders resort to complicating things when the pressure builds, he simplifies it. By the end of this episode, you're going to see why removing noise might be the fastest way to improve your results. No edge is forever. But when it's structurebased and that's how just the market moves, then you can't really eliminate that edge.

1:27I started looking at what other really successful, really big players are doing. And what I've noticed is they if you don't mind, I want to get stuck straight into conversation. And I think we have to start with the phone. Tell me about this. Do you think it's actually been beneficial for you all these years to only trade from your phone? I think uh I think it has been beneficial in growing as a trader in my own kind of way.

2:00Um you know it's a very you know you look at a phone. What's a phone? You know you only have three buttons on there. It's very simplistic. you have buy, sell, and cancel, cancel all. But, um, it was necessary at the time and, uh, that's how I built the whole strategy is you only need a couple things to look at and you only need a small screen.

2:18You know, that's that's kind of what I pride myself on is I keep everything pretty simple. And you don't need a thousand things to look at. At least, you know, it at least I don't. But uh that's that's how I built my strategy is is because I needed to use a phone um because I was working at the time. Interesting.

2:42So this was something that you did consciously from the very beginning or was this just kind of something that you fell into? Uh what's that? Trading from your phone. Well, specifically it's not something I I fell into. It's something I had to do because at the time, you know, I didn't have a computer to look at. Um because I was working in construction. I was working as an electrician. I just graduated high school and I went straight to work. And obviously, you know, once you're in the field, you you don't have, you know, that that big monitor to look at.

3:08You know, you're not in an office. You're out, you know, bending pipe and you're running wire. And uh the only thing I had was, you know, my my 6-in screen. So that's what I used. Very very interesting. Talk to me about the idea of keeping things simplistic. This is obviously something that you pride yourself on. You've obviously mentioned it very very early on to this podcast and it's something that I think a lot of people at home will need to hear.

3:33Need to hear in the sense that at least I can tell you from my journey when I started out trading I thought all the answers were in complication. I thought they were in adding more things, learning new ways to trade, strategies, indicators, whatever it was. you seem to go the other way but very early on or did you fall into that same trap to begin with as well? Uh I I did and I didn't. So you know uh the you know

4:04the all the indicators you know everybody thinks that's the secret you know that the indicators and and uh the super strategy that takes you know six and seven other different things. Um but yes, you know, I think everybody can relate to that, myself included, is when you first start, you think trading is this is this impossible sport that that only geniuses can do and and the only way they can get an edge is they have all these algorithms and indicators.

4:30Uh when you know, for the most part, it's quite the contrary. The more simple you make it, the easier it is to really hone in on your edge and and what the price is actually doing, where buyers and sellers are actually fighting it out, who's trapped, and and you don't need a thousand things to look at because at that point, it becomes analysis paralysis. I think that's something that everyone's experienced at some point.

4:59So, you've obviously taken this mindset around building a fairly simple and clean approach to the markets. Um, and then you've built something of your own, right? You you've titled it the the 80/20 strategy. Is that right? Yeah, that's correct. So, what it really is, and and I look, by no means am I saying that I invented, you know, a certain a certain things. I mean, they're just levels on the NASDAQ. That's that's all it really is. But it's a combination of having, you know, those levels and having structure and price and combining everything together.

5:27You know, simple concepts, but combining everything together to get a clean picture on the market for that, you know, for that 10-minute window, 200 second window, and and having that clean entry that you can have a small stop, but really ride out, you know, the the snapback, you know, into into your profit targets. Interesting. And so, I mean, judging by what you're saying here, you're a scalper. Yes. Correct. Okay. And what what made you believe or what got you into the field of scalping?

6:02Did you ever try with anything different or was scalping always your thing from the beginning? Scalping has always been my thing and I'll tell you why. It's because I didn't have the uh the luxury of letting those trades run because I again I had to get in and out because I was I was working. I was working. I had to be productive and um and so the faster I get in and the faster I get out the better.

6:29Do you ever find that there's any downsides to scalping? Yeah, absolutely. There there there is. You know, you don't get to you don't get to capture those humongous moves. You don't get to do those two week swings and and you know in prop firms you can't do that regardless at least futures firms. But uh the downside to scalping is that you know you really kind of cap your upside.

6:55And the way I get around that now is I would put on more size to capture a larger pointbased move instead of a um drastic pricebased move. Interesting. And I I think it's a it's a different way of looking at things because I think that at least from my perception, the general narrative online is that successful traders, they always run their winners. They always maximize the upside whereas you're doing something quite differently, right?

7:25You're kind of capping your upside but taking them with larger size. That's correct. And and let me let me preface this by saying that having runners is a great I mean that's that's really how you take your trading from from static to exponential is you have those huge winners but I mean a lot of the times those huge winners you would have to take a much larger uh percentage-based risk on your account. So for me, I keep my stop static.

7:56My take-profit at least for the first one or two contracts will also be static. And then runners, yes, I I will have runners, but most of the time, you know, they're not going for two or three or 400 points that, you know, maybe I'll get 30, 40, 50 out of them, but and a normal size move for you that you're looking to capture is how many points? About 15 to 20 on the NASDAQ.

8:18Okay. Interesting. And so tell me a little bit more about this 80/20 strategy. It's it's obviously got a little bit of a catchy name. How much can you tell us about how it works and and how you kind of trade it on a day-to-day basis? Sure. So, so, you know, how I developed it was um you know, there's price levels in the NASDAQ that end the very last two numbers end in 80 and 20.

8:42I'm not counting the decimals. And most of the time, you can see a reaction based on that. And and what I've noticed is these levels, they kind of align in align with the NASDAQ um and the QQQ option price ladder. It's about a dollar between. So there's there's more nuances

9:04than just oh for some reason these levels work. Um the I mean the reason the reason behind it is is a little more uh complicated than they're just magic numbers. But that's as I mean there and there's numbers in between them, but the main ones are 80 and 20. That's why I named it, you know, 8020. And then you combine that with structurebased setups on the NASDAQ because no matter what, you can kind of have what no edge um is forever.

9:30But when it's structurebased and that's how just the market moves, then you can't really eliminate that edge. And listen, I've been trading for seven years now and uh and those seven years 8020 and and structure has always remained the same. Okay, let's take a quick break here and I want to tell you about a prop firm that's actually trusted and proven to pay their traders. There's only one name you need to know about. It's Traderify.

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11:27Uh, I I've never I'll be honest, I've never back tested. I I don't do that. I think it's it's a waste of time. If it doesn't work tomorrow, what's the point of back testing it? So, I I always forward test my strategies. Um I always put them up to the test on that day. Um and and look, I mean, it's it's worked fine with with no back testing. I'm perfectly confident in that tomorrow it will work the same as today or yesterday or last week.

11:52Interesting. Do you do you find any issues in applying the same strategy to other markets or other asset classes at all? So that was one of the things that I really tried to break last year was was my need to trade the NASDAQ and only the NASDAQ. So last year I really started venturing into different markets. So copper, gold, silver, you know, the metals and I kind of developed my own playbook uh when it comes to uh the metals market.

12:24you can't really trade them the exact same way as the NASDAQ just because of just because, you know, it it really doesn't trade the exact same way. They both have their own um characteristics. But as far as structure goes, I mean, a market's a market. If there's volatility in there and and and it's moving and and you know, you don't have these huge price gaps and there's there's it's liquid enough, then structure is structure and most of the time it'll be the exact same.

12:50M I've been speaking with a fair few guests about the importance of having that adaptability to to go into different markets, right? Because as you said and as other guests have have also mentioned, volatility is the name of the game, right? If a market's not moving, our ability to capitalize from that market become very very little. And it sounds like obviously your transition in moving into some of the metals has been very beneficial given the current volatility in them.

13:18Um, have you found that the the more recent volatility and specifically I'm thinking about, you know, the gold, the silver specifically, has that been beneficial for you? Is that something that you've struggled with in terms of changing the I guess the volatility that you're used to? No, absolutely not. You know, I I would I would put it like this. Gold and silver have have went from a more mild movement to more of a NASDAQ type movement. And uh and I'll be honest, you know, the last two or three months have been my most successful months in in trading period.

13:55It's and it's strictly because metals are moving with volatility. And if NASDAQ isn't, I can always have an instrument that is interesting. And again, I I've started to see this as a little bit of a common theme here, which is yes, of course, it's important to have a strategy which gives you an edge, but actually I think where most people tend to do really well is they find the asset class or the market that is going to present them with the conditions to allow that edge to really thrive.

14:19Was that something that you were conscious of when you were starting to dabble out into different markets as well as wanting to, you know, not be so reliant on NASDAQ? So that's that's something that I really took from other traders. I I started looking at what other really successful really big players are doing. And what I've noticed is they are not stuck on one instrument. They always have a different playbook.

14:46They look at several different markets. And when you're starting out, I mean, it's it's great to know one market and only only trade that market. But once you have kind of mastered quote unquote mastered, I I don't say that lightly because no market is is you can fully master. There's always changes. But as far as being able to have multiple playbooks, multiple instruments, I think that's vital as as a trader to grow and to really leverage yourself and and your ability.

15:16Yeah. I I was just speaking with my last guest about the idea that money never really disappears from the market. it's always just transferring into something else, new asset class. And I agree, I think having that outlook as, you know, being able to see where the money is going, where the volatility and opportunities are, it's a really, really important skill set for for every trader to be able to have. Um, something I do want to pick your brain on a little bit is a little bit of the nuance behind developing the strategy.

15:40Now, I'm actually not super fussed about learning the the intricacies of how you get in and out of the market. I'm actually more fascinated by the idea that you actually came up with something completely by yourself. Maybe that sounds silly to you, but at least from I guess this side of the the interview, I tend to speak to a lot more traders that start with a a relatively um out ofthebox uh strategy is maybe the right way to put it.

16:09I'm talking and I'm thinking of, you know, the ICT traders, the SMC fanatics, supply and demand, support and resistance, however it is you want to frame it, but they all come up with a very generic way of doing things and then maybe apply it to fit it to themselves. Do you think that there is any benefit in starting generic or do you think everybody needs to find their own thing that works for them much like you've done with the 8020? I look so so there's no concept that that I have really invented quote unquote.

16:34it, you know, the market's been around for for hundreds of years. You know, it's it started in tulips. I mean, you can you can you can say anything about that, but as far as, you know, inventing stuff, I think it's very hard to to invent a a strategy that no one has done that no one I'm sure someone is trading exactly like me. Um, but as far as being a new trader and taking stuff that's already proven to work, um, I think there's a lot of benefit in that.

17:09However, you can never just copy someone step by step. Every trader, every everyone has a different mental, everyone has a different uh, approach to the market. So, you can take nuggets from here and nuggets from there and combine it into something that you understand personally. And I think that's what I really ended up doing was I took um pieces that I've just noticed in the market and I and what has worked and what hasn't worked and I kind of combined it into something that works for me personally.

17:38um I didn't have the opportunity to watch streamers or watch uh you know YouTube videos because I would I would just you know come home and I would be so so tired from the day and I really didn't um really care for what others were doing. I just wanted to make money in the market, you know, that's what I really wanted to do. And with time, I believe anybody can develop something that works for them, but it just takes that knowing your own personality and knowing uh what exactly you're looking for.

18:16So me, it would be very hard for me to be a swing trader. I'm not a swing trader. I I didn't develop my strategy around that. So watching a position for two or three months, I personally couldn't do that right now. Um, and that would be the same case for, you know, a person that's just starting out. Uh if you're naturally just someone that wants things here and now, you're not going to want to to take uh someone who's who's a professional swing trader and try to apply that to your own, you know, your own self because ultimately it might work, but 80% of the time you will just be fighting yourself.

19:04Do you do you ever think I know you referenced there when you had your job, you didn't really have the time or maybe the energy to watch and learn from other people and that was why you kind of came up with something that had to work for you. Do you ever think that was an advantage for you? Because something that's starting to become a little bit of a reoccurring theme again the more of these episodes that I shoot is actually whilst we are very very fortunate to have an abundance of information at our disposal in today's day and age it also opens the door for a lot of noise right a lot of uh a lot of avenues for traders to fall into that trap of analysis paralysis overthinking worrying about x y and zed when actually it's going to have no relevance to them.

19:44So, do you think actually the limitations that you started with turned out to work in your favor at some point? Absolutely. I mean, they they definitely did and and I'm very grateful for how uh how it all came about was I I didn't have um I didn't have, you know, one strategy and I hopped to another one and I hopped to another one because that didn't work.

20:03And that's something I see uh you know a lot with new traders and and let and most traders most struggling traders is if something doesn't work for them they don't give it the opportunity to work. They don't put that time and energy and they just they kind of hop into the next thing into the next hot thing. If ICT didn't work they'll hop into you know order flow or whatever. You know what I mean? So, so it definitely is an advantage to stick to one thing and really make sure that it's not suited for you until you jump into the next one.

20:41So, for me, uh, you know, I'll speak from my personal experience. There was some things that that just weren't working for me. So, when I first started, I used a a 15minute chart. And uh you know at the time I was like this is this is not working for me.

20:59It's too slow. You know I can't use a 15. But the only reason I started using a 15 is because I saw uh another trader do it. So I'm like okay let me try a 10-minute chart. Well 5 minutes less. You know that five minutes was the core principle of everything that you know that five minutes is 5 million now. You know what I mean? That I went from a 15-minute chart to a 10minute chart and it really you know it changed my how I view the market.

21:20You know what I mean? when for someone else it could be it could maybe they'll use a 15minute you know what I mean so I I I mean the core thing that I'm hearing from you is like the experimentation and figuring out what works for you is really key for a lot of traders would you agree with that absolutely abs I mean experimenting to a point you you don't want to just experiment for for the sake of experimenting like like you uh just keep jumping around here and there here and there and you never really get a grasp on something concrete.

21:55That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to say that, you know, use something that works, adapt it to yourself, don't give up on it right away if it doesn't, and make sure that, you know, you're putting your effort and your energy into learning everything there is to know about that certain strategy. something that you've mentioned a few times in in this recent part of our conversation is is really centered around like knowing yourself and knowing what you're like as a trader.

22:20What was that journey like for you? How did you get to know yourself? And I again I'll speak from experience here. When I got into the markets, I don't feel like I really knew myself. I don't really feel like I knew what my triggers were, what worked for me, what didn't work for me. And I think a lot of traders go into this game very, very blind. So, is there something that you found from your experience that you would advise or or to tell an aspiring trader about how to get more understanding or awareness around who you are as a person and what will work for you?

22:57Honestly, that that kind of uh um experimentation or I would say

23:05even um finding yourself really comes from from trading. I I tell I tell my my uh small small group of traders all the time that, you know, you don't really know who you are until trading comes into the mix. You know, there's there's certain emotional triggers that only happen to show their their ugly face in in trading. And you know that that same thing for me. I I didn't know that I had such a short temper sometimes.

23:35you know, I I'm usually a very mellow person, but when it comes to the NASDAQ and getting getting, you know, filled on one contract and the rest don't, you know, that that sets me off. That's just an example, but uh as far as finding yourself, yeah, I think I think trading is is definitely something that that uh very ex exponentially uh increases the process of of uh finding out who you are as a trader. And and one of the things is is like I said, I'm I'm a scalper.

24:08I personally, you know, my my wife hates it. I I love to micromanage. You know, I'm a micromanaging person. I you know, why is why is that? Can you move that? Can you do this? Uh let me do this for you, etc. And that really shows itself in in my trading is is, you know, if I can't let a position start turning against me. I'm just if I'm in a winning trade, I'm not going to let that trade become a losing trade.

24:35Um and and that, you know, that's just one part of really understanding yourself and understanding who you as a person are. You know, if you like to micromanage trades, don't go into swing trading. You know what I mean? Yeah. I I look at that philosophy. I I always frame it in this way of you have to choose your pain, right? because I I don't believe that there's any one single approach to the market that ever negates the idea of having to experience pain.

24:59If you're a scalper, like you said, maybe you're going to take certain, you know, base hits or you're going to cap your upside, but you're going to take something out of the market, but then the pain you experience is watching those big moves go on and run without you. Similar as a swing trader, I I would class myself as a swing trader in my kind of bread and butter.

25:23Um, I like to ride big long trends, but I often find that sometimes I'll get into a move, it starts running in my direction, and I go through that pain of watching that winner come back to be a loser. So, I think whichever way you choose to play the market, you have to you have to pick your poison.

25:40You have to pick which pain you're willing to experience and accept that there is no outcome where it's sunshine and rainbows and butterflies all the time. It just I don't think it ever exists. Would you agree with that? I totally agree. I and and I love that point of picking picking your paint picking your poison. I mean, there's uh nobody starts off trading with with being uh the Mozart, you know, there's no there's no genius that's born a trader. Everybody has to go through that through those flames and and figuring out uh what works for them and and what definitely doesn't.

26:13And uh nobody nobody has the ability to just walk into the market and and be you know a genius. Everybody who's a successful trader has come into it not knowing anything and starting from zero 100%. I always like to say you don't know what you don't know and until you go through that path of exploration and think introspection it's it's very very difficult to figure that out.

26:38Um, one thing I do want to hear a little bit more from your side is about the psychology behind how you trade because you obviously mentioned kind of during your own path of experimentation and I guess maybe the right word is introspection is you discovered you have certain tendencies that you didn't realize would would be a thing for you, right? So, you mentioned you sometimes you have a little bit of a temper when certain contracts don't get filled.

26:58How do you deal with a lot of those emotions, especially when you're playing with such a small time frame? Uh that's something that I that I continuously work on. Um you know, for me that I I say this all the time. For me, when I feel tilt, uh especially winners's tilt, meaning when you're up on the day and and you want to press the gas and you start taking losses, I call that winner's tilt.

27:20So, so you start giving back your day and then you start tilting and you want to get back to where you were. Um so when when I have something like that and I know what's happening and I can kind of become a second person um that can see myself in a in a third third person's you know point of view is uh I try to step back. I try to kind of talk to myself saying saying you know this this is what's happening.

27:53you must step back or else the tilt will take over. You cannot trade like this. Um you're not what you're doing is not trading. It's just it's just um it's just tilting. Do you was that a very conscious thing that you put in place? Because and again I'll tell you from my experience I I always say I'm very very fortunate to connect with and speak with hundreds of traders and I find that a lot of traders actually have that conversation but they have it too late.

28:20They have it after the mistake has happened. Whereas what you seem to be able to do is to do it almost in real time. And again I'm not saying you're perfect by any means. I'm sure we all have our moments. This is the nature of being human after all. But how do you go from having those conversations after the fact to trying to have them or at least have the mental headsp space to have them in the moment?

28:40Uh it just goes back to the point it's it's all the pain. I mean I I've been there. I sometimes I'm I'm still I'm still, you know, uh having that postb blow up clarity where where you know you you would either lose an account or you would lose your pro your day's profit or you would hit the in a live account your your daily loss limit and you're and immediately after that happens, isn't isn't it so interesting? Immediately after that happens, you have this this clarity come into your your mind that oh well, why did I do that?

29:16But in the moment you don't. So it's something that as a trader you have to continuously work on to find the signs before it happens. Like for me personally I'll just my neck starts getting cramped, my stomach starts hurting and that's how I know well it doesn't start hurt. I start getting like butterflies in my stomach and that's how I know you know this is what's happening emotionally right now inside. I must step back or else it will get worse.

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30:14You can add playbooks, trade replay, full back testing, all in one single tool. By using Tradezella, you'll not only understand all of your trading data, but you'll get feedback on exactly what's working and what isn't. Use code PFT for 20% off the yearly subscription or PFT 10 for 10% off the monthly. Try it out and watch your trading transform. I I think that's a really interesting point that you've made there because what you're identifying is either thoughts or feelings that come before the action, right?

30:47I always frame this in the the psychology terms. We call these triggers, right? Certain triggers that will set you off and they spark a thought, an emotion, uh you know, a way of thinking, a way of speaking to yourself that ends up leading to at some point a detrimental action. And I think you're doing all whether you've done this consciously or not, you're doing all the

31:05right things in the sense that you're starting to get proactive with those triggers rather than reactive. As part of that process, did you ever do like do you journal as part of what you do? Is that how you start to track a lot of like how you connect the dots in terms of figuring out this thought leads to this action and therefore when I experience this thought, I need to do something different about it?

31:25Yeah, that's something that that I really started doing about two years ago. And um you can kind of see two years ago, immediately after I started doing it, you can see this kind of exponential growth in my P&L curve. Um is at the end of each session, I would take two setups out, not all of them, but just two setups. I would, you know, write down exactly what I liked about them and I would write down um how I was not exactly feeling but what in the moment was happening in my head.

31:56Was I was I ready to take the trade off early? Was I ready to was I worried that the trade would come back against me? And you know after that started happening and and I had you know the occasional day where where I would have either a bigger loss or I would hit my daily loss limit on the day. I would start to notice that you know I would do that thing where where you know my stomach starts having butterflies.

32:25I would cr I would start you know scratching my head like why is this why is the market not moving the way I want it to move? And um and with time, you know, you you see that there's a pattern to to everything. You know, either the trigger happened that not all my contracts filled because because there wasn't enough uh orders on the books there or or that I, you know, missed my takeprofit just barely and it turned against me. Stuff like that uh would would trigger me and then I would start having these very poor decisions after the fact.

33:02M and um you know journaling really helped identifying those trends and having kind of a barrier between tilt and full-on blowup. Yeah. Yeah. And those journals, is that something that you also do on your phone? Yes. Everything I do is on my phone except for uh trade copying. So I use I use a computer because um all the software almost all the software is is desktop based. Yeah. But uh the only thing I use my computer for really is uh is trade copying and requesting payouts.

33:36That's about it. It's not a bad problem to have by any means. Um okay. So one thing you did touch on there very briefly is you mentioned that when you do journal, you take your like a couple of setups that you've had during the day. How many setups on average are you getting per day, per week? Like what does that look like for you? Well, the fortunate or I I guess the great thing about about my strategy is because um it's a low time frame based strategy and because it's based on structure and levels.

34:09Uh it's not based on exact you know exact super important criteria. There's a lot of there's a lot of um entries in the day. So on average, I would take, you know, looking back, I would take on on an average day about six to seven entries on the day. Okay? On a really really good day where I'm on on a heater and I'm on fire and I'm pushing the gas, I mean that that the entries would probably stay about six to seven, maybe more, but my contract size would exponentially increase with every single win.

34:44Interesting. So when you're on a good day, you'll often press harder. If you're on a bad day, do you do the opposite? Do you cut yourself off early? Absolutely. So on a bad day, you know, and and because the

35:00strategy is a very high it's a higher win rate strategy. If I'm wrong by three times in a row, I know that on that day, you know, I'm I'm just not seeing it or something happened where I'm not um I'm not able to execute on that level that I'm used to. And that's when, you know, that's when you have to take that subconscious, you know, step back. Whoa, wait a second. You know, I'm I'm not in the market today at 100%.

35:25I must either step away or just close it down for the session. So, is three trades kind of like a hard limit for you where if you haven't had any winners by then, you'll you'll call it a day, I would say. So, yeah. I don't really I I don't like um subscribing to the concept of of a hard limit where you must stop for the session in profit or loss. Um, but I think that's something that a lot of traders would benefit from, especially if they're like scalpers, they would benefit from having a uh like a hard limit as far as stops go, especially when they're first starting out.

36:01Uh, myself, you know, I I kind of know uh me as a person, three is a pretty good number. Three is a good number where where I kind of say I kind of take a step back and and and just realize that I'm probably just off for the session. One thing which you said which was actually quite interesting to me is actually on your good days you'll press harder because I I again have a lot of these conversations and there are a fair few people that have these kind of hard cut off rules when things aren't working in their favor which again I agree with you.

36:29I think is very very beneficial, right? Protects your financial capital, protects your mental capital, keeps you in the game for the long run. Talk to me about the days where you press harder. What does that look like for you? Do you are you doubling up position sizes? Are you, you know, like trying to look for more opportunities when you know you're on a good run? How how does that work for you?

36:58On a good run, it's very simple. my uh my day starts off just as any regular day, but there's a certain your mental kind of shifts and you start seeing the market, you know, it's moving on every single entry you take, it's moving the exact direction you want it to take. So on those days where it's it's a abnormal I mean it's not it's not a normal uh type of session you know where your edge is really showing itself and you can really capitalize that's when you have to step on the gas and for me personally how that looks like is I start taking you know with every single win I start taking higher and higher position sizes or uh alternatively I'll take my take profits off and I'll start adding into a winner over and over and over and uh pyramiding the position lowering moving my stop under every single um winning trade.

37:50Very very interesting. I I find one of the hardest parts about that dynamic is what happens when it doesn't work because I'm sure you would have had a day where it started off really well. you decided to, as you said, either scale up position size or remove that take-profit and pyramid in and it hasn't panned out how you thought it would. Has that been something you've experienced? Oh, it's something unfortunately uh you know, a lot of times that's how I really got coined the phrase uh uh wilt winners tilt.

38:27So when you're when you're on fire and you're, you know, you're up 20 $30,000 on the day and you really start taking those bigger sizes, you go from from five contracts to 10 to 15 and then and then as you exponentially increase size, you know, you can't be a winner all the time and you'll take that loss. Um, not turning that loss into completely blowing out your whole day. That's something that uh I struggled with on big days. And what I've really started to take into uh into notice is when I start feeling like I'm on top of the world,

39:09um I really try to move my risk for the day. So, let's say I'm up $55,000. Um, I have a like a give back rule where I'm okay with taking these bigger and bigger positions, but I will stop as soon as I give back 30% of my highest P&L uh to that point. So, you you're almost giving yourself kind of like a trailing stop loss for your equity for the day. Exactly. That's I mean that's exactly what it is. And and what what it ends up doing is is I can really run up the session if if you know if the if the market is really continuously giving me great opportunities, but I also cap my my low end as well.

39:57So So if if for for instance, you know, you have that $50,000 day, I'm okay with giving back 15,000 and it's still a great, you know, it's still a good session. I'll take that trailing stopout and realize that okay, for whatever reason, my edge is not presenting itself in the in in this case and I'll take the the big day regardless. So question that I have for you and again this is more of a personal one but I think people in the prop space will will be interested to understand this.

40:20Do a lot of futures firms have consistency rules? You know what it's a very good question. A lot of firms have started giving options to traders to not have consistency rules. Interesting. That's where I really shine cuz I like running up those those big sessions. However, consistency rules and prop room firms, um, they're not a bad thing, so to speak, because it kind of gives you that, uh, the ability to focus on having a good session, stopping the session, and just focusing on the rest of your day.

41:00Because you know as traders we can kind of get into get into um the mindset that all the time every single day I must make money when really why I got into trading was because I wanted that financial freedom. I wanted freedom to spend you know either traveling or or doing other things. It just so happens that some days um that you don't you don't really get to do that because you're you're working basically a job if you're staring at the screen the whole time.

41:29And that's not why I got into trading. I I know most people can can relate to that. Yeah, 100%. Again, it was it was something that stood out for me because I again, I'm not I don't trade futures. uh I'm more of a CFD guy, but obviously not being able to swing trade in the future space and the consistency rules are massive killers for for what I would like to do. So, it's it's helpful to understand that there are firms and maybe options available that will allow you to not have the consistency rules so that like you said, you can really let your edge shine, which is again very

42:06very important as part of what we do. Um, talk to me about the the not the payouts themselves, but scaling up to get to the level of where you are because I find the psychology behind how you manage both yourself and your risk in that runup very very interesting. I speak to a lot of traders on again a month-to-month basis that struggle with the aspect of understanding their own personal risk tolerance because I again I can only presume please correct me if I'm wrong that when you first got into trading I think you said 7 years ago you weren't trading the size that you are today and the likelihood is you weren't you wouldn't be able to trade the size that you were the size that you do today largely because of the mental game that is required and and that comes along with What was that evolution like for you?

42:54How how did you find yourself able to scale up to get to the sort of numbers that you're doing at the moment? I think that just comes with experience to be honest. Um once you have a complete and honest um edge where you can trust that even if you might be wrong on that trade or wrong on the second trade or even wrong on the day over time your edges will will prevail and that really comes comes with experience and time in the market. M and knowing yourself as a trader.

43:23Uh now as far as sizing goes, futures and and trading in general is one of the unique uh opportunities where in order to just make more money, let's let's talk about business for a second here. In order to make more money, most of the time you need to take on more employees. You need to have bigger spaces. You have to have more production. Well, trading, all you really have to do is just add more contracts. That's it. Now, you know, when when I first started, a $300 day was great.

43:57I called those Casio days because, you know, they're small. They're not they're not flashy, but they do the job. You know, you stack enough of them and and you might be able to buy that PC Philippe or whatever, right? Um, and uh, I was completely fine with $300 days, but as time goes on, you know, that $300 day, you add a second contract, now it's a $600 day. You add a third one, it's a $900, etc., etc. Well, you know, and and as you get more experience, you have more reasons to get into the market.

44:33Now, you know, now you multiply your entries by two. and now you're looking at, you know, $1,800. So, all it really takes is just having confidence in your edge, confidence in your ability to make, you know, those entries uh be riskfree, so to speak, and and um that variance in trading can, if you have an edge, will go your way more than it does not. Very very interesting. And I I I really like the fact that you have been able to do this over a large sample size of time and you can accurately reflect on all of that and understand that it happened progressively, right?

45:16It didn't happen overnight. And I think it's an important message for a lot of people because I I see a lot of traders that are getting into the game and honestly trading at a size that they're not mentally ready for. And I think you have to take it progressively. I like to think about it in terms of I always compare trading to health and fitness.

45:34I think about it in terms of progressive overload, right? If you wanted to lift more weights in the gym, you would you wouldn't stack on, you know, five, 10 plates in one go, you would do it one plate at a time. And I think if you manage your money in very much the same way, you'll have a very similar outcome um the grand scheme of things. Totally agree. Um [snorts] okay, uh Akala, I want to I want to start winding things down a little bit.

45:57Um it's been a super interesting conversation. I have a couple of things that I want to run by you uh before before we end this episode today. So, first one's just a little bit of fun. I've got a uh a few quickfire questions that I want to run by you. Uh nothing crazy. I'm ready. Um okay. So, if you could only trade one market for the rest of your life, it's got to be the NASDAQ.

46:20Yeah, I felt like it was going that way. It's got to be the NASDAQ. Um favorite session to trade? New York session. New York. Okay. Um best thing about scalping? Uh, you you're right very fast or you're wrong very fast. Maybe that ties into my next question. Worst thing about scalping? Uh, you limit your upside. You limit your upside. You also limit your downside.

46:45I mean, look, pros and cons to everything, right? Of course. Pick your poison, right? Okay. Nice. That was just a few that I wanted to run by you. The last thing I want to do, um, we're making this a little bit of a a segment on this show. We're calling this, uh, Confessions of a Trader. And right now, these are things that I'm kind of uh formulating, but at some point, we want this to be audience submitted.

47:04We want our viewers to submit their own confessions about experiences, thoughts, scenarios that they've been in um around the markets. I want to read one out that I've curated um and I want you to give me honest thoughts, advice, perspective, whatever it is that comes to mind. Right. Confessions of a trader. Let's do it. So, this confession says, "When I'm not in a trade, I feel anxious. I feel like I'm missing something. So, I start adding rules, extra confirmation, or jumping into trades that aren't really there."

47:35How do you actually learn to trust a simple plan and train your brain that's constantly telling you to do more? Uh, that just wow, what a what an interesting question. Um, I think every trader kind of has, especially when they're starting off, they have that same uh the same problem where they always think that they're missing out when really, you know, like I said, I have six to seven entries. Some guys only have one entry a day.

48:09Some have one entry every month. Um, that's what building an edge is all about. And you can't have an edge all the time in the market, you know, in every single price movement. It's not it's not feasible. So, you must wait on good setups that work for you that have proven over time that they work out every single time or most of the time, I should say, and being okay with with letting opportunities go.

48:37I mean, there's no point in being a hindsight trader. You can't make money off that. What what's the point of looking back in the past? You must look forward to see, you know, what's the next opportunity I can take that also is a good setup and not just, you know, price moving around up and down. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Beautiful. Um, Aala, it's been amazing to speak to you today.

49:02Thank you so much for your perspective, your insights, your wisdom. Um, and I think the viewers are going to take a lot away from today's episode. What a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. Appreciate it. Okay, guys and girls, over to you. What was your biggest takeaway from today's episode? Akala has been kind enough to share a lot of wisdom, a lot of insights, and a lot of lessons from his experience in the markets.

49:21Let us know in the comments which one was most meaningful for you, and we'll be reading each and every one. If you also want to participate in these episodes, make sure you drop your trader confession, and you can find the link to do that in the description below.

49:36Thank you so much for tuning in. As always, if you like this video, be sure to like it, subscribe to the channel, and check out some of the other episodes that are on the screen in front of you. See you guys in the next one.