Brian Stonk on staying funded after the first payout

0:00Over the course three years, I took in 2 million in payouts. You want to use prop firms as a stepping stone. Ideally, just take their payouts that you've been accumulating and then fund it to your own live account. And then when you do that, most traders think the hardest part about prop firms is actually getting funded. Our guest today believes the real test only begins after you get paid out.

0:18So when traders are just getting past an eval getting one payout and they think it's already done, the goal should be getting live funded with a firm where you can get more capital and you can work with them and they can work with you to basically scale up to as high as possible. Meet Brian. He's made over $2 million from prop firm trading. But what makes his perspective different isn't just the numbers.

0:36It's the way he actually thinks about survival. Any new trader, they should start out free first because there's so much resources already. This is what I like to do all the time. Look at your expenditure on the prop firms and look at your payouts. You want to aim for like at least five multiples. If you are trading well for the last 3 months, the expenses you have should be like zero.

0:52And how you could do that is he believes that most traders don't fail before the payout. They fail because of what the payout does to their psychology. You're going in blind against traders with decades of experience thinking that you could basically overcome them and steal money from them. Probably 10 out of 10 times you're going to lose. It might even kill your trading opportunities.

1:09In this episode, we're going to unpack why longevity matters much more than short-term wins. We talk about why prop firms can either be training wheels or a casino. So if you want to understand not just how to get funded but to stay funded, this episode is for you. How much back testing is enough before you feel like you can be confident that you can trade a market?

1:30I feel like I have maybe a hot take on this. Okay, let's get into it. Brian, I I want to jump straight in if you don't mind. Um, there's a lot from your journey that I would love to unpack, love to understand about how you think, how you act, how you behave on a day-to-day basis that has got you to where you are today. And I think one of the things that I want to start with is you're known for talking about this idea that most traders have this big blowup moment after their payout.

1:57What is your mentality on a day-to-day basis that stops you from going on tilt? Yeah. So, I've been trading props for a little over three years now. Trading as a whole six years. So, half my um trading journey has been prop firms, which I always say is a blessing because it's the best thing anyone can do to start with zero capital, no risks, and basically it's like training wheels where you can level up your trading.

2:22And um if you do well, it it's quite rewarding where they'll scale you up slowly slowly with multiple prop firms. But for me, um, over the course three years, I've been I took in, um, two million in payouts. Okay. I've been just, uh, posting on socials, you know, because that's one thing about transparency. I think that keeps you, um, in check. Yeah. You know, because I I like to post my wins. I I also don't like to post lots, but I do anyways, you know, because everyone has to see it.

2:50It also helps me stay in check with myself, with everyone else. Everyone's watching. All eyes on you. more pressure, basically increase diamonds here. And that's what I'm trying to do. And what I've been doing is um lately um every time I get a payout um early on especially, it it hurts every time I get a payout early on, especially in the first few years when I start uh trading props, I always get this surge of confidence where, you know, I I made $10,000, I made $5,000.

3:15Um, and it it makes me want to, you know, go for more because I already got this cushion. Um, and when you're new into to like trading or, you know, naive because you you're trading against people with decades of experience, you're coming in new. New as in for me is like, you know, under three years. You you're still fresh in this. Um, most traders I I see, including myself, um, would turn to, um, you know, doing good initially.

3:51you know, the cycle usually goes like they they are playing the props. They're, you know, they take a while to pass the emails, which which is normal, but then once they get the funded stage, there's going to be a lot of times where it's like hiccups. It may take you months before you even get your first payout. But once you get it, you get this um this feeling that you can like, you know, I accomplished something, but this is this is just basically, you know, you just recoup what you invested.

4:10You haven't really got to the stage where you're like, you know, you're you're trading for all um the marbles here. And what I would kind of compare it to is like um if you got your first payout already, right? Um it depends like how you got there. You probably went through, you know, a few evals, if you funded stage before you got your first payout. Most people I've talked to is like that. And um it's not you're not ready to basically scale up from there yet.

4:39So um when you ask a question like uh most people you know from from what I said here um people tend to like blow their account or after the first payout basically that is tends to what happened because you just you know took you like five 10 whatever tries it is you got one payout right that doesn't mean you won the game yet. This is only the start of your journey and um the whole thing about trading is to survive and you to live for another day where you can you know get the second payout, third payout and basically be consistent to the point where you know you don't even feel anything when you're receiving payout.

5:14That's just more of a output of what you did as input. So I think that's what I've always said to um to people. Once you get first payout, you know, job's not done. This this only begun here, right? 100%. I I speak to a lot of traders and I always

5:31say this is the one thing I'm very fortunate to be able to do. I connect with hundreds of traders every single month and I see this mentality a lot. I see this philosophy that like they the thing that they are aiming towards is just becoming a funded trader. And I say the exact same thing like the philosophy should go far beyond just getting funded and getting that achievement and getting the little certificate.

5:53You have to think about the long game. You have to think about surviving. You have to think about position sizing correctly. You have to think about when is the right time to be able to step away. And I think that's the part that most traders have just never really prepared for and it's the thing that tends to trip most people up. Would you agree with that? Yeah. Yeah. Um I feel like when um the the whole trading journey, right, um people get through the eval, the funded and then there's the final step that I think people mis um perceive.

6:16Um the whole prop firm traditionally has always been you pull them and you find you vet um you do these challenges or um just basically the firm itself would look and scout these highly skilled traders with you know good risk management um and a good trading edge over the course of months and months even years so they could basically back them slowly give them more capital and more capital.

6:41So when traders are just basically just um getting one getting past an email, you know, getting one payout and they think it's already done, the goal should be getting, you know, live funded with the firm, right? Where you can get more capital and you can work with them and they can work with you to basically scale up to like as high as possible. Um, and I think that is um that's that's where we're likely going to go back into the industry where we're gonna be moving away from like sim towards like, you know, working the traditional route for prop firms.

7:07Yeah. I I see this a lot in what you're saying because I think as much of a blessing as prop firms have been for many many people much like yourself, I also think there are a small subset of people or maybe a larger subset of people that have picked up the wrong habits from doing these valuation challenges in that they gamble with them a little bit in the sense that they're used to hitting reset and in the real world there's no reset button, right?

7:35If you're trading real investor capital, we're talking outside of the prop space, but real investor capital, there is no reset button. You can't lose 50% of your account and be like, "Hey, we want to just top it up back to starting balance and we'll give it another go." It doesn't work that way. So, how how do you find yourself balancing that mentality to be able to get to where you are today, which is prioritizing that process and the long-term vision of where you want to be versus falling into the trap of playing that kind of gamble button all over again?

8:06Yeah, that's that's a really good question. Um, it's something that I think about a lot. Um, just viewing the whole props space, viewing my trading journey. Uh, props is basically set up as a casino in a way because you look at the stats, 90% of 90 more than 90% of people do not get a payout or if not uh if they do get a payout, they'll be net negative.

8:24So, if they spend like, you know, $1,000, $2,000, they get a $500 payout, they're still net negative into the game. And why people do that is they're just treating it, you know, like you're you're playing like, you know, the slots. you're just um you're a it's so cheap for you to basically press the reset reset button or just buy another eB um and it basically creates this bad habit where you um just run through so many accounts and it makes you numb to the feeling where where you don't even realize it until maybe someone um tell you or or you're looking at your like you know your credit card history or bank statements and you're like why did I just buy like you know 20 evals or 20 resets in this single month is like that should be an indication of how poorly you've performing um as a trader and um traders are treating this like a casino and that's not the way that you should be you know using props.

9:16I use props more as a way that I could, you know, slowly level up my trading and get basically expedite my journey there because, you know, when I started trading, I had very little capital and if I were to try to use my own capital, like the very little savings I have and I lose it because of a bad performance, you know, there's no reset button there. You have to treat this like this is like a real game or not not game, but like a real like this is real life here.

9:42Um, and people fall into that trap and they're not going the the right direction. They they rather chase, you know, one payout or, you know, hit break even or they're like, you know, if I just hit the jackpot and the jackpot is, in this case, you know, this $10,000 payout, then I'll be net positive. I'll be good. But that should never be your goal. Your goal should just be, you know, try to improve your trading where um, you know, in the long run especially, you won't need the prop firms anymore because um, you'll be able to develop the skill the skill set already um, to be able to trade yourself, trade, trade your own capital.

10:15And especially what I like to say too, you want to use prop firms as a stepping stone, get the payouts. Um, you can also trade their funds, you know, with live or whatever. But, you know, ideally just take their um take their uh payouts that you've been accumulating and then fund it to your own live account.

10:38Um, and then when you do that, you treat this more seriously because like no, this is all your this like let's say 10 payouts, 5,000 each. This is $50,000 here in one single live account. If you mess this up, there's no reset button. You just, you know, the whole count is gone. Um, and I think when you have that sense of reality away from the simulated side, this is real money here.

11:00You're able to um, basically treat this like this is this is this is real life. This is I'm a trader. I'm trading. It doesn't matter if I'm trading SIM, I'm trading live capital, I'm trading the firm's capital. No matter what, you're expected to perform rather than not um rather than like not gamble and play slots like a casino here. 100%. There's uh there's something that you said

11:24that really stood out for me and it it goes along this ideology that I think a lot of traders don't really know the difference between luck and skill. I think especially in a day and age where it's so cheap press the reset button and to just pull the slot machine again and see what turns up. A lot of traders are very easily confused by the idea that hey something has worked today and therefore I'm doing the right thing versus actually prioritizing am I doing something that's going to pay me in the long run.

11:50Do you feel like that was something that you struggled with at any part of your journey like in finding your edge and separating that difference between luck and skill? Yeah, definitely. Um early on I feel like when I started the prop from journey just basically sim similar times like when I started trading in general um getting a few payouts um that looking in hindsight now is like more luck based because I wasn't able to hold those you know funded accounts for more than like two payouts.

12:24It's is always like big spike and then you know good trading days and then you get a payout and then you know it might go do no down bit. um and just never really able to show the full consistency over the course of more than like you know two weeks or three weeks because nowadays with with my uh prop accounts I'm looking to think the long long long term basically like the longevity of those accounts where I'm trying to trade these accounts until they basically pull the plug on me pull the plug as in like they move me live right so they they forcefully take me out not because I um myself blow up and then you know I have to get back for start.

12:57So, it's always been now let's not even think of the payouts. Let's just think about how can I get these accounts, you know, to the highest possible without thinking like there's a ceiling basically because, you know, tra you're trading their capital. They're watching you. I mean, you like the reward, the milestones or the payouts as you basically climb higher and higher. And your goal should always just be hold these accounts for as long as possible.

13:23Hold it for two months, three months, four months until they they eventually move you live here. How how do you feel like you made that shift though? Because I speak to a lot of traders that are stuck at the start of that journey, which is they're prioritizing the payout. They're counting down the days until they get funded because they believe at that point something will snap, something will change, and you know, life is just going to be sunshine and rainbows after that.

13:40If you started at the same place as most other people, how did you make that transition? Was it a certain degree of pain? You learned something along the way that shifted things for you? I think after a while when you're, you know, in this uh trading space, you're showing all your transparency because like there's one thing that I I always demonstrate is like um early on I do I do poorly because I I don't know how the prop is.

14:12I I'm still getting a feel with it all these rules consistency and all um like some rule some firms are against like scalping. That might be how I like to trade or intraday draw down where you know you have to change the way that you're trading in a way because you can't hold um for the full target because if you if you if it comes back to break even it works against you.

14:29All these things it takes you a while um to get the hang of and I think people do get the hang of it but then they just need to be able to reflect over the performance. Maybe take a look at like you know how much they're spending. This is what I like to do all the time. um look at your uh expenditure on the prop firms and look at your payouts. You want to aim for like at least five multiple multiples. I'm at like around like you know 10.

14:54Um early on it's been it was it was it was rough because early on you know I was just happy to hit break even. Initially I started you know in the red because you have to you to buy it to um of course to make money first and it took me a while to get used to it and then you know I was down probably like 10 20,000 first um for the first like you know six plus months and then you know once the first payout okay happened naturally second payout third payout hit break even and you're able to like realize okay you're not in the hole anymore you're able to see like your trading has been improving slowly you're using the proferb not as a gambling um arena but more of this is training wheels.

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17:38But, you know, I think the big message for me there in what you're saying is you really stopped looking at prop firms like a game and you started looking at them like a business. Mhm. Because how you're describing that you initially had to invest money in the same way you would invest to start any business, right? Whether it's in inventory, whether it's in marketing a fancy website, whether it's staff building a roof over your head, you have some kind of startup cost that you need to put your own money against to be able to get this venture started.

17:59And then what you would hope for is that the things that you invest in would produce a return. Yeah, I guess I I I kind of agree in a way but then also disagree at the same time because what I like to do like you want to basically operate at the lowest efficiency. Lowest efficiency would be you know you want to spend as least as possible.

18:24You want to hold accounts long term. So you know if you are trading well for the like last three months the the expenses you have should be like zero. You know you're you're holding these accounts you're copy trading you're doing whatever you need to do. You're just it's only getting income because you're getting the payouts um and just pulling it in. no expenses here. And how you could do that, the best way I uh found and also recommend to to other traders who who follow me, um I've seen their their performance is you start with one account, you know, take as long as you need, you pass the email.

18:52Um first off, before I say this too, like when you're back testing, you're back test. People usually back test with a demo account. I always recommend like you can do that for the start, but like you know, have something in the game, have some risks. Um so test it out on a evaluation test out on a prop game because if you do good you know while you're you know in the training phase while you're just testing your strategy or learning it out um you can pass your eval get funded you can get payout um that has like real connection rather than you're just trading a paper account where you're just like you know you you do good like it's paper you're not getting anything out of it but back to where I was saying here um you know you start with one eval you get funded take as long as you need to get that payout it could take months You could fail.

19:37Just, you know, start with one. Again, I'm not saying buy two, by three, buy four. You You get one and then until you get the first payout, you can still be net negative. I don't know what it is, but um once you feel good where you're like um you're able to take a second one, right? It doesn't have to be right away after your first payout, but like once you feel confident enough, let's add the second one in.

19:56So, most firms, they give you up to like, you know, five accounts. Um and then you have your you have the ability to trade multiple firms up. When I first started, prop firms were like there's like two or three prop firms out there. Fast forward five years, there's like 10 prop firms out there that you could trade that's, you know, giving payouts, no delays, no issues, no it's not a scam. Um, so I think the opportunity is out there.

20:20So you're able to start with one, get a, you know, get a payout, get it funded, um, or get funded first and get a payout, right? replicate that, reinvest that to a second one and then this is basically more of an endless journey where you can go for three then five and then maybe 10. Like you don't there's no like rush to get there because the proper is not going to go anywhere.

20:42You have like you know 10 potential prop firms. If you were to trade all those prop firms and copy trade them you can have up to like 50 accounts. Um which is which is a lot because you make like $1,000 on each account. You just made $50,000. That's a very insane um multiplier. U but it's incredibly rewarding when you're able to be at that stage u and you have that skill set and that that confidence that trusting the process trusting your edge basically your trading your risk management your discipline that is like the end goal where for for profits at least that should be your end goal where you're able to scale it up um to multiple prop firms and basically you know they're going to kick you out eventually.

21:19They either kick you out or they you know move you live and you're a friend and stuff like that. Um, you know, in the final stage, that's use prop for this episode. Use those payouts. Fund your own account. No rules. This is all your money. You already did years or however long you needed on the prop game, the prop space here. Um, you now you're able to, you know, use your own money. You don't have to use their money anymore.

21:43You already have, you know, you already built this capital from from years of experience of trading the profits already. That should, that to me is my journey. And I think that's the best journey that you could ever do for any trader, even for you know beginners, intermediate or even experienced traders too. I think the problem is a lot of people don't have the same vision at least starting out. I mean if you were told you've been in this game is it six years. Six years. If you were told your one-year-old self into this game, you'd be where you are today.

22:08Would you have believed it? No, I don't think I would because I feel like the first two years has been, you know, me struggling to find my own find my own like passion. Not not passion trading but find my own, you know, confidence that like this is me. this is a trading career because as traders you're not able to feel confident in yourself as a career because I dropped out of uh university and it took me you know full two years before I felt you know this is something that I can do I can actually provide for you know my family my uh my relationship where I can you know maybe you know pay for things pay for the bills because I dropped out at uh the third year of my engineering degree so like I had one more year left and I I had full security, I had everything else.

22:54But I chose I chose trading because I was more passionate especially co time. Co time was to it was unfortunate uh thing in the country. But it was also fortunate for me because that opened the door for me. So that led to me, you know, figure out trading. And if I were to, you know, if you were say like you're saying like, you know, my one-year-old self would have um view me now, I don't think uh he would have been able to see where I I've came because it's a lot of it's a lot of screen time.

23:27Uh it initially when I started trading, like I said, um I I it it made a hard time for me to feel like I'm a trader. It took me a long time. So that pushed me to um you know show up every single day. We have 252 days of trading days in a year. I showed up every single day like basically like five plus hours back testing too to make this work. So you need that discipline. You need that you know the effort that commitment.

23:53This is like real stuff here before you can like like succeed. and my one-year-old self would be, you know, proud, but it would be like something that so high up where like he wouldn't be able to imagine that, you know, that's a possibility until you you were experienced like every single year from the journey. I think um I think it's Steve Jobs. He has this fantastic quote where he talked about this idea that it's it's always easier to connect the dots when you look backwards.

24:20When you're living them in real time, it's hard to see that what I'm doing today is going to lead to this step tomorrow and that's going to lead to that and this is going to lead to the next stage and eventually you end where you end up. But when you look back again like you just did, thinking back to your one-year-old self, you probably wouldn't imagine it. But you end up in funny places when I think you develop the right mindset. And that for me is the big thing that stands out about you.

24:45it's you seem to have that ability to think about this game in the right way. Whether it's in terms of maximizing your investments that are going in, whether it's in terms of the long-term thinking, um there is one more thing that I haven't yet touched on, but I would like to loop in now because I also think it plays a big part in how successful you've become and will continue to become but that's also the energy of the people

25:13around you. One thing that I noticed um online at least about your online presence is you have a a a small circle of like trading friends um and you kind of support each other and I presume you talk a lot you know off social media and things like this. What has that journey been like for you and what impact has that had on your ability to stay in this game long term? Yeah. So, you know, social media wise, I show a lot of things, but uh besides social media, they don't see, you know, what happens behind the scenes.

25:45And um I I could show that, but it's more like, you know, something's sometimes more personal, especially like, you know, when I'm having a a bad day because I broke all these rules and stuff. And I think you definitely need to um turn to someone and um you have to turn to one turn to someone who could understand your situation. You can't really, you know, tell your mom. Yeah. They'd be like, you know, why did you just lose this ton of money? Um I recommend finding, you know, a few people.

26:13It could be one, it could be two, it could be even like, you know, your girlfriend, whoever, as long as they understand to basically voice out anything that you need to. basically using them as a like a free psychology psychology coach essentially. Um, and that that helps you because you're able to identify and diagnose the problem that what happened because when you're talking about it, you're able to recognize it more. When you're thinking about it, you know, uh, you're just like you kind of brush it off.

26:39You're like, "Oh, I broke these rule, man. I'm not going to do it again." And then next week, next month, you do it again. Um, you need to have someone basically to talk to where they can hold you accountable. And that that helps a lot when you know the other person is also in the same situation with the same experience. So my group um just two other persons, Desi Lando, uh we talk like basically every single day.

27:02Um we I feel like I talk more to them than I talk to like my parents or my family. These guys are the one where um we we basically grew up in trading together. So six years in trading, I've known them for over four years. They're the the whole part of my trading and we we basically there's a lot of rocky starts, right?

27:20But we keep on pushing each other. We don't let each other uh stay complacent. And especially this when we do bad, we we have a earful for the other person, including me. Like when I I I've always saw a lot of things to like, you know, I I almost had this, you know, few hundred few hundred,000 payout. I blew it or, you know, I took a big loss, guys.

27:39It just I'm able to voice that to them and then, you know, they're not going to be like, "You're stupid." they're able to like call me, talk to me, and then be like, you know, it's all right. Let's talk about what we can do next, right? Let's let's review it. Let's let's see what what you did. Let's um identify what you did right, what you did wrong, and let's think about, you know, how we can recover this and proceed higher and higher.

27:58And when you have these people who are just, you know, like-minded, committed, dedicated, you're able to do something great where um all three of us essentially just went from like level one to like level 100 together. And you know, there could be one or two like you know at one stage higher and lower from each other like we have different stages.

28:21Um I remember I was ahead in a way because you know I was kind of like being their mentor. I was older than them. Um but you know I that doesn't mean like I can't learn from them because they they also put a lot of hard work in and then you know I'm able to learn from their experience and that helps me trade as well.

28:37They um especially hearing what they went through. Um so a very strong group of of people that could help you that could you could talk to it's it's been crucial to me in my trading journey. I feel like without it I'm not sure if I would get to the stage. I don't know I'm not sure if I would survive trading. Um, but it it's been it's like been like my number one thing that I could recommend to a trader.

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29:41Honestly speaking, their dashboard is one of the best in the game. They've got an in-built journaling process that allows you to trade, track, and improve your results over time. That's how real consistency is built. Now, before we get back to the episode, I want to share a massive update. Tradeify Crypto has officially launched. This is going to give you better pricing for cryptofunded accounts, and you're also trading with institutional liquidity from exchanges like Binance, OKX, and Bybit.

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30:27Links in the description below. Yeah, it's that's massive for me because I think in today's day and age, it's so easy to get lost in just trying to find the answers on the charts.

30:37Everyone's after a new strategy or a new way to enter a market or exit, but they don't look at the little things that happen actually off the screens that help the the mentality form the right identity. The accountability I think is massive. Um, and it's a part that a lot a lot of people talk about. And as much as trading has become far more accessible to a lot of people with prop firms and things like this, I would argue that actually I think it's still a very lonely space if you don't go out of your way to try and find your people.

31:05Would you agree with that? Yeah. So trading is just basically you versus you. You're trading against people that you don't really know because it's the market. And these guys, they could, you know, they could be also newbies like, you know, with few years experience just like like you, or they could be someone with like 20 years of experience, but it's a it's a game where um, you know, you either makes money, you you when you make money, you take money from other traders basically, and vice versa, when you lose, you basically just donate the money to the market.

31:38Um so when that happens um it's it's very easy to get lost um in and basically your own like downfall because like you said um trading is very lonely and when you're making mistakes and you're not able to you know have someone there with you. You don't have a team. You don't have anyone to talk to. You withhold um all these mistakes. You're going to spiral. You're going to basically give a free donation to the market.

32:03maybe to one of us over here. Um, and that's never something that you want to happen. That's why I think it's always good to, you know, join, you can join a community. You can also watch someone live trade now because, you know, I live trade uh on YouTube for free daily. That helps me stay accountable. But, you know, when I first started, there was basically no one live trading. Maybe there's like one, maybe there's two. Um, but like there was no one being like fully transparent or showcasing everything.

32:25But, we have a lot of people doing that now. And if you don't want to be alone trading, you could you could trade with um you know, you watch someone trade, but you're not you don't have to do in the way where you're like, you know, waiting for them to say buy or sell. You want to be trading with them. So act like, you know, if if you're watching me, I'm in the same room as you.

32:44I'm communicating with you. Um and if you have any feedback, any questions, you just ask in the chat. I respond, you know, back and forth. So it makes it like feel like, you know, I'm there with you. And if you tell me like in the chat too like that you know you have a bad performance, I'll tell you you know what you need to do. So like that way um you're not able to go through this um on your own. You're able to feel like you know I'm there with you 100%.

33:09I I think the big part most people miss about that dynamic is what you get from that is perspective. And that's a very hard thing to get when you're looking at it through just your own set of eyes. The moment you introduce somebody else into an equation and you get them to to give you feedback or their, you know, view on something, it can sometimes unlock a whole new door because we can sit here and have a conversation and I could see the same situation completely different to you.

33:36Neither way is necessarily right or wrong, but it opens up a new insight into how you deal with a problem. And I always find I I use this technique as a coach for for people in a day-to-day basis. But I I asked them the question if if we were on the other end of thing, right? If you had if you were asking me a question of advice and I said to you, if somebody else asked you the same question, what advice would you give them as a friend?

33:59Oh, okay. Okay. Right. So you get them to flip the perspective. Yeah. Okay. And get to just to see it through a different lens because it's often so difficult to answer our own problems. But actually when you start thinking about somebody else being in that shoes, you can come up with all the right advice. It's just often difficult to follow for yourself. That's where again like you said, perspective, accountability all really really matters.

34:21Yeah. Okay. So if I were to give advice right to to someone, I think I have I have a lot of advice I give to myself or I can give to someone. But the the one thing that resonate with me the most would be basically um separating yourself from the monetary value of it like basically the money of it, the profits of it. You're not really there to trade to make money. You're just there to basically train and like improve your edge and treating this like you know like there's no end goal.

34:49you're always willing to prove as a trader because you know there's no there's no end goal here. Um and what you could do with that is um you don't show any complacency because you're going to keep on improving every single day. You're playing against the market which is ever ever changing. Um and that way you can always stay on edge and continue to perform at the highest level. And also just basically don't even you know get the side uh emotions with the money where like you know if you're trading you're you're in a position you could be up a lot create emotion be down a lot create also bigger emotions um that helps with psychology and you know stay in the right mental state if you just treat uh trading as you know you versus you this is what you want to do to get better in any way possible so just selfidentifying self diagnosing what do I need to do to trade better um rather then what do I need to do trade to make you know x amount of money right I I follow a very similar philosophy in that making profit from the market should just be a byproduct of just following your plan it's

36:00obviously easier said than done for for a lot of people but it's definitely the philosophy that I've heard from many successful people one that obviously I'm trying to follow myself on a day-to-day basis um one thing I did want to unpack with you a little bit is the markets that you

36:15trade yeah so when I'm trading different assets My main ass is just the NASDAQ. Okay. And and ES- mini. Um um so just basically the the indexes here, but I kind of started breaking out to other um assets because you know when you're a trader, you you could you should be able to trade anything, right? So um I want to chase volatility not to the point where like I just need to make you know quicker money.

36:40It's about more opportunities. So when I looked at um you know trading NASDAQ there was sometimes like not that many opportunities in the market as it used to like years ago when there was like a lot of things going on but with uh gold or precious metal gold and silver here there's a lot of action here and when I was able to basically just do some simple back testing using my same trading style I had with you know trading NASDAQ for the last few years I saw like I basically uh opened my eyes I'm like there's a lot of opportunities where if I were to be in this these trades like trading right now with silver the last few months, I I would have like been able to perform well because this moved so it moved so clearly because silver is just a a basically a I want to compare it to like the NASDAQ but like times five volatility or even more times 10 even.

37:32Uh but basically you're you're trading um you should be able to trade anything. You can trade gold, corn, whatever it is. Just basically give it a back test and then slowly get used to it. Get get comfortable with like you know for testing and then eventually you know trading with um with real money but start slow get a feel with it first because different assets work differently but you know you get used to it.

37:53And for silver what what thing I noticed was it was just very bullish right high higher time frame just keeps on pointing upwards. um it very rarely pulled back and when it did like like like say sweep liquidity it would hold very well and that would be like a free shot guaranteed shot to like you know buy it back up as long as you stick to your model that that's that's what I identify based off my trading style. Yeah. And I just saw that that same thing happen over and over again for like the last like silver moves have been moving like gold and silver has been like four or five months I think now but this month now it's been the highest it's ever been and I'm so glad that I was able to like give it a shot.

38:34You know I'm not I'm not trying to put a lot of money in it but I gave it a shot early on like about two months ago and I got used to it and the volatility continued. Some people thought like, you know, it's just going to be something that happened like, you know, one month, two months, like a bitcoin or something. But there was more craze, more volume into the precious metals where, you know, I was already prepared for it.

38:52I was already getting used to how, you know, the asset moved and it gave a the market condition itself for silver and gold. It was unprecedented. It keeps on getting it keeps on breaking records, right? Um, so it gave me like the highest opportunity in the market where I don't think I'll ever see that again. maybe in like five ten years but that was like a I want to say like a once in a lifetime experience and I was trained for it people was afraid because you know they saw the volatility they were scared for it but I was able to like experience and slowly master it and um that's what I always um prioritize as a trader to be always adaptable always able to um change with the markets change with the algorithm if it changes let's say if you believe in the algo you have to adapt to it um so Whatever you trade, I think I think always my trading style keeps on like tinkering a little bit.

39:42It doesn't have to change completely because I've been trading ICT for like over four years now. Um what I've been doing is just slowly make making it like more concise, more less indicators, less confluences, just making it more simple and then maybe adding things that I find more useful for with my trading style. like um I've been focused on draw liquidity more and um basically bias focused on narrative um rather than pattern trading.

40:11That helped me a lot more than it um when I was just basically just following everyone else just doing pattern trading. Um so I think that there there's a lot to be as a trader and you have to think the long picture here. Yeah, for sure. I think one thing which really stands out for me that you said there is it's all about volatility, right? Volatility is obviously everything as a trader.

40:33You can't make money if a market is sitting still. But it's about matching that with your trading style because you could have one style which works well in a particular market. But suddenly if you overlay that in a market where conditions are actually more suited to amplify your strengths, maybe minimize your weaknesses, you can completely transform your results. Yes. Without necessarily having to refine your whole approach, which is very very interesting.

40:58Um, so I love the fact that you've been able to do that with silver. Now, a question that I have for you on this is you've mentioned this a couple of times

41:09during our interview today, which is you've touched on back testing a little bit. You've obviously said that a lot of markets will move in different ways, different characteristics, different conditions, different volatility. How much back testing is enough before you feel like you can be confident that you can trade a market? Okay. Okay. So, this this is good here. I feel like I have maybe a hot take on this. Um, for back testing, I always recommend for for even for myself, for other people, for newbies who wants to get uh started trading, use that to like learn how to trade first, right?

41:35Okay. You don't have to risk money in the markets. You have like years and years of data, historical data where you can learn from, but always focus on the most recent one rather than like you know the last five, 10 years to uh the most recent. And um there's like stages to this. So you want to start with back test first once you feel like you um develop a system u basically besides the back testing you want to try out different strategies different trading models.

42:08So this is where I I think it will get hot take here. I like to recommend to strategy hot first. So you know spend like a few months trading ICT trading order flow trading support and resistance get a feel what do you like first and then you know you back test of course to see if it would actually play through and the key thing is now um you want to start for testing with it now so you're done with back testing you already basically said this is a trade model that I like the trading style that I like this is ICT whatever it is now let's test it for the real markets for testing is you can't rewind anymore you're watching the market real time um so Um the one greatest thing about for testing is you're able to react to the market.

42:45Traders react, right? So you're not able to just pause things. You're not able to um just basically look back to see you're you're performing right there. It's a lot of pressure, but that's what we need to do as traders. Um so back test first then forward test and then you know that's the the that's basically the flow that I recommend and then you start you know trading with real capital slowly first and then yeah once you get it once you feel confident in your trading edge especially like months of performance then you start trading like how you would with size or slowly scale up in that way with profers with your own cash count.

43:16Um but yeah back test for test and slowly with you know capital. Do you do you have a specific amount of data that you have to run through when it comes to back testing in order to to go from the back testing to forward testing? Yeah. So, I I like to look at especially when I'm testing something out new like because I don't have to test like a whole completely new um trading model like completely like let's say I'm trading ICT and I found something that I want to like study more.

43:53Okay. uh a certain confluence. It could be something um anything really. I would just basically look at the last like six months and basically give it a shot and just basically keep it like I don't like to go few years back because I feel like when I'm trading I've been trading six years, right? Every year has been just keeps on changing for me. Yeah. So if I were to, you know, stay glued to what um how I traded 2020 during co time, I would get killed during 2026 2025 now because it just does not move nearly the same anymore.

44:24So I always recommend to stay within like you know 24 months within the first year basically that is plenty of data especially if you're basically a um like a low like a scalper like trading the one minute trading the five minute you have like so much data where you don't need to go back like three years four years just like the the first year is already plenty and especially the last like 60 90 days that's where um you should keep on adapting to what the market conditions could be changing to what what it could be leading to um and Then yeah, forward testing, if I were to put in percentage wise, I would say like back test 40%, forward test like, you know, the other 40 and then 20% is like where you're now trading with the real money here, right?

44:56And then like getting a feel of it. Um so like that way you're more protected, right? So um you would it would take like a lot of time and effort before you're even putting any risk in the markets. Hey guys, the biggest prop firm expo we've seen so far is going down on June 27th in London. And trust me, this is not something you want to miss.

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46:00All the links you need are in the description below. And if you're planning to grab a ticket, make sure you use code PFT to make the biggest savings. I'll see you there. I I like this approach because I think actually most people go the other way, which is they start well

46:15before they're actually ready. Yeah. And I I think the problem is most people don't actually have confidence in their edge and then they start adding money into the equation as it is which makes things all the more complicated. You're now attached to money as well as the need to to want to be right in each one of your positions and both of those are going to be a hindrance for most traders.

46:29So I I think what you said there it really it touches on something that I I focus on. I I try and think of this like a trifecta of finding profitability and it encompasses three things which is you need an edge in the market. It's obviously your strategy and your approach. It has to align with your personality and it has to fit your lifestyle. Yes. And I think that's where the whole idea of starting with back testing and actually moving that into forward testing without having the benefit of being able to rewind and go back in time.

46:56It tests all of those three areas because I see a lot of traders and I've spoken to many that have said something along the lines of hey you know I've got this strategy and it works great and know I have this 5 minute chart and then I execute on the 15 minute and I do X Y and Zed but I can't do that because I'm at work when I need to be at the charts.

47:22And my response is always the same. I mean if the strategy doesn't work for you it doesn't work at all. Yeah. Right. It has to you have to kind of fit that trifecta be able to make profitability work otherwise it's a little bit of a struggle. Yeah. And I think the flow itself has to be this proper way because if you think you could like like you said like when people skip like say the back test and they just go straight to the money trading getting a feel with it.

47:44I think that's like very dangerous for traders and it basically sets you back like a few years few months. I don't know how depending on how you can unlearn these um habits is you're basically jumping into fire rather than like starting to prepare and do it the proper way um before you're putting any money in the uh in the game or any risks because that will just mess up your psychology. You're going in blind against traders with decades of experience and thinking that you could basically overcome them and make money, basically steal money from them and nine out of 10 times, probably 10 out of 10 times, you're going to lose and it's going to hurt your confidence.

48:25It's going to hurt. It might even kill your trading opportunities. You I don't know how much traders are spending nowadays uh or putting in the market, but I've seen people I've seen people just jump in way too early. They lose like 90% of what they have to their name and they don't have enough time to like basically give trading another shot and basically not survive trading to the point where they can learn and grow and actually like you know get the experience like of a trader and actually trade rather than gamble.

48:51Yeah. How how much of that do you accredit to a little bit of social media? Because I mean let's rewind let's say 20 30 50 years ago where we didn't have as much exposure to information as we have now versus the person now I could log on to YouTube tomorrow and potentially watch you stream your trading and doing numbers that I could only envision at some point in time. I think for a lot of people that puts them in the mindset of wanting to chase your day, you know, 10,00 my day one, but I'm comparing myself to where you are and I want to be where you are.

49:28And therefore, I think the quickest way to get there is I have to start putting money in the game, which again, I don't agree with that take, but I think it's where a lot of people tend to get lost. There's this kind of subtle comparison. Shouldn't be that way, but I think it does exist.

49:42Do you do you ever find that from obviously you do a lot of the streaming and stuff. Do you do you find that from people that you interact with? Yeah, I feel like there's people that they see my success, right? They see other people's success, too. They look at them, they're like, I want to do what you do. But like it's like what what expectations would it take uh what do you have to get to where we are?

50:02Because we have, you know, so many experience like five years plus of just basically going daily. We're learning. We're trying to improve. have this level of discipline and they these new traders they just come in thinking they could just basically do that in like a month or something or even they might be a victim to others like gurus who sell them that dream you know like you know buy my course you can make the same amount of money I do just follow every step and I think the key to that is like you said social media here is a double-edged sword you're able to have so much content so much um education where you can learn from when I first started there was kind of like their stuff but like there was not as much creators, not much resources as available and you just put it on YouTube, you can put it anywhere essentially.

50:47Um, and is your job as a new trader to find someone basically genuine to find someone that you can actually learn from, not pay like a premium. And you know, I feel like first off, you don't have to be paying anyone anything. I think any trader uh any new trader they should start out free first because there's so much resources already um whether you're looking at streams where you're looking at um online content there's already like plenty uploads even like these podcast where with these master classes with all these you know highle traders you're able to learn from them already so you don't have to buy anything and I feel like when traders do buy that like new traders they they like okay here I bought this course it's $1,000 I'm expecting a return on it so you already you pushing like this this expectation in your mind as a trader like I have to succeed.

51:42I paid this course for it. If I you know if I succeed what happens to that course do I get a refund? No. Um it's just more that like you have to go to the expectation that you know you're going to come in you might make money you might lose money it might take you five years it might take you one year. Um, but as long as you have the right discipline and commitment and just willingness to, you know, continue to learn and, you know, survive another day, to trade another day, because you should always be improving.

52:07You should always be looking to see what you can do better. Um, that's the route that I always recommend to traders. Just go with the free route. Um, slow, go with no expectations. Try to just, um, think of the long road and then you'll get there. It's not going to be like if you get there, it's going to be the matter of when you're going to get there. Yeah, I I I mean I give people like yourself a lot of credit because I think you're

52:33actually spreading the right message. I don't like the the kind of the social media lifestyle that is painted around trading which is you know private jets, fancy watches, supercars on a day-to-day basis. I feel like at least from the outset in it lures a lot of people into thinking that there is a point in time where you get to a certain place with your trading where the market's just become this ATM.

52:51Yeah, you could just print money and it it just it doesn't exist, right? And this is why I like people like yourself that will show the real highs and lows of what this can really be like. I think it gives them a better expectation of what may come in the future. Yeah, I feel like I have a hot take on this case, too, where like hit me um for me, I I've been trading for a long time.

53:16I have a lot of success. I you know, I've I made millions from prop firms and I'm still like, you know, private with my life. I'm still like driving the same car I have from high school. Um, and I I don't I'm not that lavish with it. I feel like when people do that, they have something to compensate for.

53:34They have something like, you know, I have this Lambo here. Here's my success rather than, you know, you could just basically post a broker shape. You can just post, you know, anything else months of consistency from a prof u and basically show the same thing. And when people just show here's what I bought, here's my Lambo here. Um I think it's it should be easy for uh people to realize like this should be a red flag.

53:57Yeah. But I think they get so sucked into it. They're like this guy is so lavish. This guy is spending so much. Um I I just for me I I see through it right away. Um because all the traders that I know that are successful, they're not flashy with it. Yeah. But but you see this in all realms like even in business, right?

54:17the the biggest the best entrepreneurs, they're not the ones sitting there in the Gucci t-shirts and the chains hanging down. I So, I think this is universal across a lot of different areas and it's just most people don't really seem to connect the dots. Yeah. And you I think that's why I keep on like emphasizing you have to be able to filter everything and just find the right people because you can't be trusting people to learn from, to trade with, to rely on if they're, you know, they're not genuine.

54:43They're not willing to like work with you. they're not committed to you. Whether there is like your friends you're you're learning trade with or whether it's like a guru, you want to find the right person. I feel like there's so many good out there, but that's also equally the amount of like bad um and if you can find you don't have to find the first like a a perfect person right away. It might take you like a few bad apples first before you find someone that's like, you know, this is actually helping me, right?

55:09So try try this guy. two months later, did it help you? Did did he, you know, teach you anything? Did he did he work with you or did he just flash you like his Lambo or his like his uh his million-dollar check or something? But then you try next guy, you watch this guy's live stream. He's like, "Okay, I'm starting to learn from it, right?

55:27I've been watching every day. I've been tuning in. He answered all my questions. Y he's transparent. He shows what he buys. He shows when he sells. He shows his wins. He shows his losses." Um, so I think that's my message to to traders. I keep on emphasizing just find the right person. Don't stick with someone that you bought from if they're not helping you.

55:46Like if you spend like a thousand dollars on their, you know, whatever service they have and it's been like more detrimental or has not helped you over like, you know, a few months already, you you have to just cut that off. Go to the next person who could maybe help you better, especially the free route.

55:59You know, you don't have to pay for anything. Like I keep on saying, yeah, I we we call this in psychology the sunk cost fallacy where you've invested so much time, energy, resources into something, you don't really want to throw it away. You want to make it work at the end of the day. That's that's similar to trading too. Like you you don't want to get married into a trade too.

56:14You have to be able to cut it off. Um especially when it's like going against you and it's making you emotional. Um so as traders this this is very important. It affects everyday life and every all your decision. You have to be disciplined and able to react to things and adapt and choose basically the best route for yourself. Because for me trading I always think of things as probability like what it's more likely.

56:37Is it likely to you know hit my target? isn't more likely to hit my stop. And that's where I have more mechanical trading, but also discretional. That's my intuition from years of experience, years of screen time. Um, I'm able to just kill the trade if I don't feel like this this might be bothering, this might give me a bad vibe. You should be able to try to train that instinct for other people too outside of trading and and within trading.

57:00So, would you would you recommend most people start with a fairly mechanical approach if they don't have that intuition to begin with? Yeah, I think always you start with the mechanical first because you know you don't have those reps that you would have from um you know years and years of just looking at a screen trading everything like that. So any new trader at all with like under like I would say like two years this is kind of like my my arbitrary number.

57:22Anyone with like under two years experience should just follow mechanical. Remove all the motions. Remove anything that you think that you should be doing. save that for when you actually have a lot of success first and then you know you have like a edge going on and then you start slowly incorporating it where like you're like okay I'm I'm following my trading style I'm trading I'm following my edge here but I I've seen this a thousand times this is giving me a red flag here I think I should get out that's that's like you know you you you would get that over time you don't you don't get that right away yeah I I think the problem that most traders have is they don't really know how to separate emotion intuition, especially in your early days, because like you said, the example that you gave there is maybe getting out of a trade early.

58:08For some person with a few years of experience, that could be a degree of intuition speaking. But for a new trader that's just scared of losing 50 bucks that's on the screen, it might just be emotion screaming out of them. And so, the thing I always advise, and I'd love to get your take on this, is for traders just to document what would have happened. So let's say you have your mechanical rules that you follow and you get this instinct or this urge to say I want to get out here or I want to do X Y and Zed.

58:32Measure that variable and extrapolate it out. Do it 50 100 times. Does your gut actually give you a better edge in the market or does it take away? I feel like I do that already both like all the time. Just sometimes I write it down. Sometime I take a screenshot of it or I just do in my head and like I follow my instincts and there's early on there's many times I'm like you know I want to take this short.

58:58I want to take short, but um you know my model's not there yet. Like let's just see what happens. And then you you do that like 100 times, you're like, "Wow, my my instinct just is terrible because I'm not there yet." So like that instead of trying it out, instead of risking your money, what you could easily just basic that's where forward testing is about. You don't have to be um back test forward test and then you're trading your live trading. um that's where you're just able to basically analyze, get more data, get a more feel of confidence uh of your trading edge instead of just uh falling in motions and um so I feel like trade every day just you know with the expectation of you can win some, you can lose some, you can win big, you can you can lose also big but just don't um connect your your trading with emotions with any emotions if especially when you're trading big size, right?

59:46You don't want to see the P&L go up 10,000 and you're shaking. Same thing if you're you're down 10, you're like shaking. Like that's going to just basically kill your edge because you don't know if you have you could have the best trading model, the trading edge, and you have everything correct, everything checklist, but just because you size too much and you're afraid of losing, you might, you know, kill the trade for a loss and then the trade just hit the target and you you're like just basically think yourself.

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1:00:58Head to tradzella.com and use code PFT for 20% off. That's tradzella.com and code PFT. I think the problem is that connection or that relationship,

1:01:11it's not always linear because there'll be some days where you have this urge to go against your plan and actually it would have worked out and that day eats away at you. Yeah, it does. And and it's the opposite is also true as well, right? You could also have a day where you stuck to your plan and it hasn't worked out so well and it's easy to kick yourself about that thinking, well, you know, if I just overtraded or avenged traded, I would have made my money back.

1:01:26And that's what makes trading very very difficult for a lot of people. There's no linear connection between today I'm going to do all the right things and it's going to work out and tomorrow maybe not so much. And it's it's hard for them to see the long game when it comes to that. Is that something that you ever experienced? Yeah, I that that happens like like I said when I um doing all these like variables in my mind like if I take this trade, if I don't there's many times where I'm I'm in I'm in draw down and I'm like if I you know if I long this and with size even though I shouldn't because like I have a rule where like if I lose basically three times in a single day in a row basically I should just I'm wrong too many times.

1:02:10That's like that's that's a red flag of of my trading and that's like me just reading the market completely wrong. You could have a three win streak on a day. You could also have you should be able to expect a three loss streak. Um so when that happens um I'm I'm in loss.

1:02:26I'm in draw downs, right? And you think to yourself like if I just long this here, I might be able to go from draw down to break even, maybe in profit. And um that that is the poison in trading where you have to be able to put like a wall up because you know there's two things that could happen.

1:02:44It could have worked or it could have failed. But you don't want that probability to happen because that is more of 50/50 rather than uh following your trading model which you know tends to be like above 50. It should be like 65 60 70 you know we're talking about win rate and like risk reward.

1:03:00So it should be like a profitable edge. Yeah. But we were thinking this like, you know, if I did this, I would have made money. If I did this, I could have lost. You're just basically like flipping a coin. Yeah. You have to be able to realize that. Um, but it's good to collect data with it, right?

1:03:15So, like, you know, kick yourself if you want, but don't pull the trigger. Don't push the button. 100%. But I I I think what you said there is key, which is collect your data. That will give you the answer that you're looking for. Ultimately, the way I always see it is if you have rules, if you have strategy or a plan that you should follow, that should only exist because it tells you it's the most efficient way to make money over a large sample size.

1:03:39So, the moment you say that actually I don't want to stick with my rules, what you're saying is either I don't want to make a lot of money or I don't want to make it efficiently, neither of which makes a lot of sense. So, data I think is really the key for everything going forward and it can give you all the answers that you're looking for as long as you're collecting it.

1:03:56Yeah. your your trading edge is basically a culmination of a lot of things. It's how you make money because you have a you should be looking to win more than you lose, right? Whether it's higher win rate or higher risk reward. At the same time, it also protects you from um the risk management side.

1:04:13You're you're when you stick to your um trading edge here, you're not going to be able to expect like a giant loss. It should be within reason, within your trading data. Um and I think that's very important. So, it kind of goes like with everything in mind, just stick to what you've been working on the most rather than just tossing away and like let's just gamble.

1:04:30Let's just see if I can just make some money real quick and just flip a coin, buy, see what happens. That is a dangerous like path. Yeah, 100%. 100%. All right, Brian. Um, I want to start winding things down a little bit. I've got a couple things I want to do before we bring this to a close. Um, I've got some quickfire questions for you that I want to throw your way. just a handful, nothing crazy. Um, but we'd love to get your take on these.

1:04:56Um, so some quickfire questions. Um, we'll start off with what's one behavior that you used to have but don't have anymore. Just won't stand for it. Oh, okay. Okay. Um, I feel like this is something that maybe people would have but they don't realize or maybe they already realize it's always trying to be right in every situation and especially in trading. There's like multiple ways to look at it. So um you don't you don't have to be right about everything.

1:05:25You when the market's moving, it's like moving 24/7, right? There's a lot of things happening. I don't have to understand everything in the market. I just have to understand um I have to be correct on basically the one thing the one thing that that the small segment in my trading rather than try to like understand I could have trade here, I could have sold here, I could have long here. I think that helps a lot. Um, and when you're able to ba basically think about that more.

1:05:52You don't have to be right on everything. You don't have to also be able to have a 100% win rate, you also respect your losses and um, basically that would run you the more profits because you're able to protect mitigate all these losses and you're able to focus on the right profits and you you'll be net positive at the end of the day as long as you're not in the mindset of I should be right.

1:06:14Right. cuz you know when you lose you you made a bad analysis based off your trading edge. Nice. I like that. Um okay. What is one mistake that you've made after a payout? Oh, I feel like there's many mistakes. It's always the start of confidence sometimes, especially early on. But nowadays, I I've been focused on base hits, right? So like, you know, I get a payout. It's like nothing new.

1:06:39Just slowly build up. But the mistake I had before was like I got a payout already. these accounts are paid for, let me let me um try to 10x it now because like you know these are free money now. Um and that to me is like when you're trading something that's you know worked already, you you've been slowly growing up consistently and then for whatever reason once you got the payout um you would just like okay let's change everything up.

1:07:01Yeah. Let's see if I can like do more. Let's see if I can speed it up. Um that that has always been dangerous to me. Um but now nowadays you can see my um my trading curve basically is just more consistent all the way through rather than you know we got a payout and then oh we try to go up or we try to go down. Yeah. Yeah. So the base hits have really helped you. Yeah. Base hit mentality is it's always been great.

1:07:28I feel like um it's it's something that works for like especially new traders but same time like experienced traders too. Um, it's always basit has the basit mentality is the perfect way for you to do anything because you're not expecting a big day. You're not expecting a bad like a large loss day. You're expecting something that that's in within reason of the average all your trading days for the last like months or years. All right. Um, couple more for you. Best advice that you would give to a new trader.

1:07:55Best advice. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, if I if I were to give advice to someone, we already talked like back testing, forward testing. Those are like, you know, very clean already. Um, since we're talking about prop firms, my I think my biggest advice is um don't waste your own capital because when I dropped out of school, I was I only had my savings and that put a lot of pressure for me because if I lose this, what's my backup plan? Do I try to go back to school, get some loans, or um like I don't even know what I would do.

1:08:25So, you want to basically keep yourself free from anything in your mind? So, um when you're trading with prop firms that that allows it, you shouldn't be also trying to like pay bills. You shouldn't be trying to like I need to make this money because I have to pay for my student loans. I have to do all these type of things.

1:08:45Those are hindrance in your mind where you're not going to be able to excel things with because you know like we talked about you have this expectation in your mind already that you want to get especially for new traders like you shouldn't even think about that you should your goal should be can I survive in the markets if I trade you know if I'm trying to learn to trade basically can I just not you know blow up in the first year because most people they get in trading they just they could buy penny stocks they could buy random things and they just blow up they just never get back trading.

1:09:10That's why 90% plus of traders who who start, they fail. They never look back. Nice. Okay. Um and we're going to flip that last one on its head. Worst advice that you've ever heard given to a new trader. Worst advice. Um oh, there's um it's probably similar like correlating to what we talked about with good advice. Like some people saying like, you know, back testing everything. I'm just like back testing is like a small part of it.

1:09:44It's a good part for new like early on, but like for testing is something that triumphs everything to me. Um, and then people can back test all they want. They can be like, "Yo, this this model I have here, I back tested the last three years. I've I've I've had like, you know, this it went up 100% every single year." And then when they try it in the, you know, real markets live live um either forecasting with live capital, it doesn't do well.

1:10:07And they're like, "Why? Why is it happening?" Because like when you're back testing, these are just like very similar. These are um easy to read. You're not you have infinite time because you can pause it and you're not able to also see the cannon while it's forming too. So you're just seeing like you know pictures of it. Yeah. Rather than see it move real time. The real time effect is like tremendously like different than than what it would be like when you're just pressing rewind and pausing.

1:10:31Yeah. I I think both of them have their place. I always like to say back testing is the optimal environment to prove that your strategy works. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But then forward testing is the optimal environment to prove that you can actually make it work for you as the trader. Both are of equal importance. You could be the best you could have the best trading strategy. But like trading is just not about like you know just about trading itself.

1:10:54It has it has a lot to do with like psychology and mental state and everything. And when you're live testing, you're getting tested with everything. Back test is just like simply your trading. Um last thing I want to cover. I I

1:11:11want to start a little bit of a segment towards the end of every podcast that we do here. We're going to call this uh Confessions of a Trader. So, we're going to have some of the audience submit a question in which we're going to read out to a guest and get their take, their view, their perspective. Okay. You have questions already or I So, I h I have one that I've formulated from something that I've read online to kick off.

1:11:31Okay. Uh and I think it's actually going to be quite fitting for your story. Okay. So, I'm going to read this out. you tell me your take on it, what advice you have or what your thought process is around this. Okay. Um the the confession is I feel like I wasted my teens and my early 20s learning how to trade. I'm profitable now and I trade full-time, but I have no girlfriend or friends in real life. I feel very lonely after it all.

1:12:00I'm not sure if it was worth it or not. Wow. Okay. I feel like well I resonate with that a lot but at the same time like it I sacrificed so much of my life to get started trading because when I dropped out of school for the next six years I was like shut in. I was lucky enough to be able to find like you know my love interest basically I'm in a relationship for as long as I've been trading.

1:12:25Even without it I feel like it was just it's a worthy sacrifice but like I have regrets too because I was missing weddings. I was missing family events. I lost in touch with people, but it I feel like it was a kind of like a trading arc for your life. You were able to um basically fight with yourself because you're you're kind of doing something completely new and it's just you versus you and it's such a battle where it could take, you know, a few years, it could take 10 years and you you have to be willing to sacrifice something to achieve something great.

1:12:47And for this this take here, this guy um he said he was um he's doing good right now, but he sacrificed too much, right, of his early years. I think for me, um I guess it's perspective, right? Because you could do good already, but like you wasted all your adult life. Um but for me personally, I feel like that's a big accomplishment in life. A trader is 90% of people fail and you're like basically the top 10% who actually succeeded.

1:13:22you should continue working with that and then you know eventually you you're able to um not you know put so much screen time on you're able to enjoy life more because there's still more to life and um you don't also for one thing when I was training six years I the first three years especially first two three years the the learning phase has been like the bulk of it I was on like almost 24/7 but like you know once I was able to be more profitable you have to start finding balance in yourself that's very important because if I was going the same like output put I was doing um early on year one year two when I was like you know hungry when I was in the learning phase I would be burned out I would probably lose more money and I I would have no life basically and as traders once you succeed more you're able to basically have control with your life you have more freedom that's the whole point of trading right you are financially freedom you can trade wherever you want you trade whenever you want um so it's very important for traders to

1:14:21basically find that balance whenever they feel comfortable so they don't like I don't have to be on the charts 24/7 anymore. I could I made enough money or I feel good enough. I could trade, you know, one hour a day and then just enjoy their life. So, for this comment particular, my take would be like, you know, you have to find that balance eventually. And any traders, any viewers here, um once you get to that stage, you know, take control because we're trading for a reason.

1:14:37We're trading for a purpose to have freedom. And what's freedom without like utilizing eventually? 100%. 100%. Um I think that was a great take. I had a lot of hot tea, but this one I feel like this was like a more firm one. No, it was a great way to wind things down. Um, Brian, been amazing.

1:15:00It's been fascinating getting to know you. Um, I'm really looking forward to seeing what you go on to achieve and uh maybe we'll do this again at some point. Yes, my pleasure on this. I've really enjoyed this type things. Thank you so much, man. Appreciate it. Okay, so for you guys at home, what was your thought? What was your biggest takeaway that Brian shared with us today? Make sure you drop it in the comment below. If you enjoyed this video, make sure you like, subscribe to the channel, and check out some of the other podcasts.

1:15:25They're on the screen in front of you.